shaming of mothers with a career?!

rubopp · 2023-08-03T07:51:23+00:00

Again today I’ve read a thread where a women is criticised for needing childcare when their child is under one. AIBU to think if we had threads/comments saying ‘why aren’t you in a decent job to provide well for your dc?’, that they would be deleted? There’s actually lots of evidence that children do well in life and thrive in higher income homes. No, it’s not everything and overall it probably doesn’t matter… just like it doesn’t matter in the long run if someone decides to stay home with their dc until their dc go to school. What IS this shaming of mothers who dare to have a career?! Jealously? Narrow mindedness? I find it mind boggling that people think you can take years out of a career and come back to it… in highly successful roles actually you can’t do that. Though I suspect those people who post such nasty things have no idea if they’ve never achieved that themselves. There’s lots of benefits to being able to fund all your child’s activities, holidays, books, cultural trips especially as they get older and need house deposits, cars etc so let’s not pretend that the only way to raise a child is to live frugally and don’t dare to make anything of yourself. Rant over.

BettyRoodBoy · 03/08/2023 08:53

It's not really "shaming" imo, it's people that are too dim to consider anyone might be in different circumstances from themselves, or don't know how to analyse evidence. or they're just on the windup
Plenty of that on MN!

AnneLovesGilbert · 03/08/2023 08:55

Though I suspect those people who post such nasty things have no idea if they’ve never achieved that themselves.

Goady as fuck.

Overthebow · 03/08/2023 08:56

I agree op. Being able to pay for somewhere decent for your DC to live, experiences and activities and to save for their future is so important and not everyone can do that without working. It’s also being a good role model to work.

I had no intention of giving up my career and my dd has been in nursery since she was 11 months old. She’s hugely benefitted from nursery developmentally and we can afford activities, holidays and luxuries that we wouldn’t be able to if I didn’t work. Mums shouldn’t be shamed for working and doing the best for their kids.

Wbeezer · 03/08/2023 08:57

There are threads where mother's on benefits or SAHMS are criticised for how they live, In fact on Mumsnet I'd say being dependent on a man or the state is shamed more often than having a career!
You've probably got confirmation bias where you spot threads that offend you but don't notice the opposite ones and so think they are less common.

Hugasauras · 03/08/2023 08:58

Some people are just arseholes and insecure about their own life choices. People who are happy and content with their own lives don't needlessly criticise others, so mostly I just feel sorry for those kind of posters as they are obviously living a life they aren't happy with and instead of doing something about it IRL, they are sniping on MN to make themselves feel better.

DrSbaitso · 03/08/2023 08:58

There’s actually lots of evidence that children do well in life and thrive in higher income homes.

This shouldn't surprise anyone. Poverty is shit.

EhrlicheFrau · 03/08/2023 08:58

Do what works for you and your family.

(If am honest though, you are moaning about career shaming but then go on to effectively shame those who stay at home, with at least some of your wording:

'I find it mind boggling that people think you can take years out of a career and come back to it… in highly successful roles actually you can’t do that. Though I suspect those people who post such nasty things have no idea if they’ve never achieved that themselves.

There’s lots of benefits to being able to fund all your child’s activities, holidays, books, cultural trips especially as they get older and need house deposits, cars etc so let’s not pretend that the only way to raise a child is to live frugally and don’t dare to make anything of yourself.'

How do you know what those taking time out have ever achieved in their lives?
Do you realise that you can 'make something of yourself' in ways other than career/money driven?)

rubopp · 03/08/2023 08:59

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BettyRoodBoy · 03/08/2023 08:59

Wbeezer · 03/08/2023 08:57

There are threads where mother's on benefits or SAHMS are criticised for how they live, In fact on Mumsnet I'd say being dependent on a man or the state is shamed more often than having a career!
You've probably got confirmation bias where you spot threads that offend you but don't notice the opposite ones and so think they are less common.

Definitely. And it's not all or nothing. You can stay at home with one child and go back to work after another.

Original poster

rubopp · 03/08/2023 08:59

EhrlicheFrau · 03/08/2023 08:58

Do what works for you and your family.

(If am honest though, you are moaning about career shaming but then go on to effectively shame those who stay at home, with at least some of your wording:

'I find it mind boggling that people think you can take years out of a career and come back to it… in highly successful roles actually you can’t do that. Though I suspect those people who post such nasty things have no idea if they’ve never achieved that themselves.

There’s lots of benefits to being able to fund all your child’s activities, holidays, books, cultural trips especially as they get older and need house deposits, cars etc so let’s not pretend that the only way to raise a child is to live frugally and don’t dare to make anything of yourself.'

How do you know what those taking time out have ever achieved in their lives?
Do you realise that you can 'make something of yourself' in ways other than career/money driven?)

@EhrlicheFrau that’s exactly my point though.

People don’t say these things yet they could. We don’t shame women who choose to stay at home.

OP posts:

BoohooWoohoo · 03/08/2023 08:59

The first answer is spot on imho. It's like when people say that they have a hospital appointment and their h can't take the day off and someone replies why they have asked a neighbour or family to help 🤦🏻‍♀️ They can't imagine a world where they aren't solutions available to everyone because they assume that their normal is everyone's normal.

thatsn0tmyname · 03/08/2023 09:00

If a father works full time, he is a responsible provider and doing right by his family.
If a mother works full time, she is selfish and self-indulgent. 😡

Original poster

rubopp · 03/08/2023 09:01

BettyRoodBoy · 03/08/2023 08:59

Definitely. And it's not all or nothing. You can stay at home with one child and go back to work after another.

Show quote history

@Wbeezer good point, I haven’t seen threads saying the opposite so could well be confirmation bias. I do think generally though it’s expected for women to take a hit.

OP posts:

Rocknrollstar · 03/08/2023 09:02

I went to uni when my younger child started school and then worked full time. My children grew up independent and resilient. They knew I was there for them when they really needed me, but not to deliver forgotten football kit to school in the middle of the day. They also appreciated the difference my earnings made to our quality of life. Not to mention that the younger one could go to private school, as suggested by the HT of his Primary School, and we could have a decent holiday. I think most of all they appreciated the difference that being fulfilled made to me as a person and a parent. I should add that I honestly thought when I had my first child that I would be a happy SAHM forever but the novelty wore off after the first 18 months and I went back to work. However, my mother was a young grand mother and more than happy to become my childminder.

kikigen · 03/08/2023 09:02

I've never felt shamed in RL (ok maybe once I can remember getting a comment but it was an isolated incident!) it's an online thing, people passing judgement on people they don't know because that's much easier to do, and it absolutely goes both ways. I'm a career parent, as is my DH, but I think SAHMs get more (largely unfair) judgement on here tbh.

Beamur · 03/08/2023 09:03

Yep. I had bills to pay so DD went to nursery from 9months old.
My MIL had DH before maternity leave was available. Most women gave up work when they had kids. She had a very important job in medical research and didn't want to give it up so DH was in nursery at 6 weeks old. MIL went back to work full time. FIL also worked full time.

EhrlicheFrau · 03/08/2023 09:05

rubopp · 03/08/2023 08:59

@EhrlicheFrau that’s exactly my point though.

People don’t say these things yet they could. We don’t shame women who choose to stay at home.

Show quote history

Nope, it's not 'exactly your point'. You are right to be unhappy about career shaming, but your language regarding those who don't share the same views on following a career path is definitely less than ideal (the highlighted bold bits).

Maray1967 · 03/08/2023 09:05

Overthebow · 03/08/2023 08:56

I agree op. Being able to pay for somewhere decent for your DC to live, experiences and activities and to save for their future is so important and not everyone can do that without working. It’s also being a good role model to work.

I had no intention of giving up my career and my dd has been in nursery since she was 11 months old. She’s hugely benefitted from nursery developmentally and we can afford activities, holidays and luxuries that we wouldn’t be able to if I didn’t work. Mums shouldn’t be shamed for working and doing the best for their kids.

Well said. I went back at 8 months - maternity leave didn’t last as long years ago. Both of mine are happy, well adjusted, bright and healthy - both were very happy at nursery. I went part time which suited us but they’d have been fine if I’d been full time - I would have been less happy though.

Needmorelego · 03/08/2023 09:05

I will say similar to what I said on a current SAHM thread.
In the real world - no one actually cares what other mothers do.

Highdaysandholidays1 · 03/08/2023 09:06

I was shamed by my own child once, she said 'all the other mummies stay at home, not like you' She was about four. I explained that I was working so we could have food, heat, water and all things we needed to live. Now (widow) I'm a lone parent and I'm so glad I stuck at it! She never said that again, I think it was just something she heard/saw at pre-school, as I did miss the 'come and read with me at random times in the middle of the blinking afternoon' sessions.

Sahmandhappy · 03/08/2023 09:09

I’m a sahm with lots of dc and on benefits and I get shamed so much. Mums with careers and dc in full time childcare get shamed. Mums who are PT And dc in school get shamed . For some reason it’s the shame culture where we only identify and comment on perceived negative aspects. People talk about ‘the village’ but that doesn’t exist anymore it’s just a race to the bottom it seems

Wsmi · 03/08/2023 09:09

Any woman who is not financially independent really should be focusing on herself than bringing working mothers down. The number of threads on here where relationships break down where the woman doesn’t earn or is being financially abused in a relationship are alarming.

Unless a non working woman is financially independence through some big inheritance, she is a dependent of someone. And that is always a risky position to be in. Always.

Approaching · 03/08/2023 09:09

We don’t shame women who choose to stay at home.

Sorry OP, I don’t know what planet you’re in to say this. ALL mothers are shamed, frequently and widely. At work? Career woman who does t care about her kids development. SAHM? How dare you teach your kids to rely on a man. Work part time/some other combo? Well that’s the worst of all worlds isn’t it.

CwmYoy · 03/08/2023 09:13

I find it mind boggling that people think you can take years out of a career and come back to it… in highly successful roles actually you can’t do that.

You can. I took five years out until youngest DC started school and then went back to work and had a very successful career. It's down to personal choice or necessity.

We didn't have children until we could afford for me to be out of work for 5 years. Neither of us wanted our children in nursery or minded. DH was such a child and he has very bad memories of it. His mum was widowed so had to go back to work but he was a very unhappy child and didn't want that for his own children.

RagingWoke · 03/08/2023 09:15

Women can't win, whatever we do it's criticised. Because it's easier to encourage this petty fighting than encourage everyone to help each other out, because then we might address the real problems and those rich white men would loose their power and money.