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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

shaming of mothers with a career?!

263 replies

rubopp · 03/08/2023 08:51

Again today I’ve read a thread where a women is criticised for needing childcare when their child is under one.

AIBU to think if we had threads/comments saying ‘why aren’t you in a decent job to provide well for your dc?’, that they would be deleted?

There’s actually lots of evidence that children do well in life and thrive in higher income homes. No, it’s not everything and overall it probably doesn’t matter… just like it doesn’t matter in the long run if someone decides to stay home with their dc until their dc go to school.

What IS this shaming of mothers who dare to have a career?! Jealously? Narrow mindedness?

I find it mind boggling that people think you can take years out of a career and come back to it… in highly successful roles actually you can’t do that. Though I suspect those people who post such nasty things have no idea if they’ve never achieved that themselves.

There’s lots of benefits to being able to fund all your child’s activities, holidays, books, cultural trips especially as they get older and need house deposits, cars etc so let’s not pretend that the only way to raise a child is to live frugally and don’t dare to make anything of yourself.

Rant over.

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 03/08/2023 11:52

Well, a mother's place is in the wrong. You know that now.

It's a no win situation. As mothers, society tells us that we should be devoting all our time and resources to raising our children.

Society ALSO tells us we should be economically active and striving for more.

It's impossible to do both, so we get frustrated. We see other people's choices as a slight on our own. We become defensive. None of this is our fault, it's the natural reaction to being put in an impossible position.

The only thing to do is detach. Do what you feel is right for your family and to hell with everything else.

AnneAnon · 03/08/2023 11:58

Think there is a balance though.

I know high flying parents (and I apply this 100% equally to both parents) who put their career ahead of their kids time and time again. It’s not even about being full time, it’s more than that. It’s the constant networking/ business development. Work till 7 then out at whatever event. Some of my colleagues, male and female, seem to spend next to no time with their kids. Can afford to chuck money at childcare all hours of the day and night, so they do.

i’m a working parent, with a good career in a profession which I care about deeply, but my kids will always come first. I’m not seeing that in some of the professionals I’m working alongside. There is a difference.

Boomboom22 · 03/08/2023 12:02

Depends on the career. Teaching is quite good as you can go pt and change schools etc as necessary. Keep up to date with marking or tutoring etc. Law would be very difficult as you need to be up to date at all times. Generally agree yanbu, only the very rich or poor can be sahp, not the middle or most of the workforce really.

Usernamen · 03/08/2023 12:06

AnneAnon · 03/08/2023 11:58

Think there is a balance though.

I know high flying parents (and I apply this 100% equally to both parents) who put their career ahead of their kids time and time again. It’s not even about being full time, it’s more than that. It’s the constant networking/ business development. Work till 7 then out at whatever event. Some of my colleagues, male and female, seem to spend next to no time with their kids. Can afford to chuck money at childcare all hours of the day and night, so they do.

i’m a working parent, with a good career in a profession which I care about deeply, but my kids will always come first. I’m not seeing that in some of the professionals I’m working alongside. There is a difference.

I completely recognise the super driven parents who put their career before their children, I’ve just never thought of it as necessarily a bad thing.

You don’t need to be a martyr and spend every single evening with your children. In some careers, not attending networking events and clients dinners etc. holds you back tremendously, and if you want to get ahead to earn more and provide for your family, you’re going to need to let their father step up and do the lion’s share of the parenting.

Newname211 · 03/08/2023 12:43

vivainsomnia · 03/08/2023 11:20

Why is that?
Because it's a cultural stereotyping assumption that men should work to support his family financially.

Men who are sahd whose wife work and earns well get the finger pointed at them too.

They absolutely do not. They get raised to god-like status and fawned after. Endless offers of “help” to “give them a break” and so on.

From the mouth of my previously SAHD partner.

runnerbeanqueen · 03/08/2023 12:51

Op you sound very defensive of your own situation and equally as judgemental of SAHMs as you feel people are of you as a working mum. It feels that mother's can't win whatever they do. Best to accept there's no right or wrong way and be happy with which way you do things.

NewCracker · 03/08/2023 13:14

Threenow · 03/08/2023 09:59

How do you know what those taking time out have ever achieved in their lives?
Do you realise that you can 'make something of yourself' in ways other than career/money driven?)

Well said. I have no time for people who think being career/money driven is the only way to have a good life, in fact I actually feel a bit sorry for them (and their kids).

👏🏻 absolutely!
Perfectly moulded sheep; believing your worth and success is only measurable in your career and finances.

EhrlicheFrau · 03/08/2023 13:33

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 03/08/2023 10:46

Tbh, it never really occurred to me that I was "competing" with other families. I'm grateful that we can afford the things that are important to us as a family, but I really couldn't care less what other people do. Maybe that is part of the luxury of feeling that we have enough money to do the stuff we want to do, but I really don't think that many people view it as a competition. Of course, people on lower incomes might be frustrated if their options are limited at times, but then again, some may have simply made different lifestyle choices in accordance with their own personal values.

We are quite comfortable financially but we don't have an extravagant lifestyle - we live in a very ordinary house, drive a very ordinary car etc. That stuff just isn't very important to us. I'm sure that lots of people on lower incomes feel the same.

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I used the word competition because that's what the poster I was quoting had used. I don't disagree with the general idea of what you have written.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 03/08/2023 13:34

EhrlicheFrau · 03/08/2023 13:33

I used the word competition because that's what the poster I was quoting had used. I don't disagree with the general idea of what you have written.

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I know! I was agreeing with you!

EhrlicheFrau · 03/08/2023 13:36

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 03/08/2023 13:34

I know! I was agreeing with you!

Show quote history

I just wanted to clarify why I'd chosen that word. :)

HappyJoyousFree · 03/08/2023 13:51

We don’t shame women who choose to stay at home.

I've seen lots of posts around SAHMs that are negative. I think we each have our own social norms in the circles we move in/have grown up in, that impacts our beliefs on what is or isn't 'acceptable' or 'the norm'. Everyone has their own ideals and views on whether mums should or shouldn't work. I think there's judgement either way you just have to go with what works for your family and finances.

SpringHexagon · 03/08/2023 13:56

I actually feel the opposite, in my working and home environment I feel judged for only working part time, like I'm somehow lazy for not working full time and putting my daughter in full time nursery. You won't win whichever choice you make.

AnneAnon · 03/08/2023 14:00

Do you not find with part time working that you’re just crap at work and crap at home and just have the worst of both worlds? I really did find that, I found part time work really hard and I was always on the back foot. Doing well at absolutely nothing.

I think it’s because I still had a full time workload - just with a lot less time to do the work….

vivainsomnia · 03/08/2023 14:10

They absolutely do not. They get raised to god-like status and fawned after. Endless offers of “help” to “give them a break” and so on
Not at all the experience of one of my friend. He's been made fun in a derogatory way for 'sending' his wife to work whilst he has it easy and what kind of husband us he, especially when the children had started school. He was made to feel like he was a cock lodger all the time.

ametrine · 03/08/2023 14:16

Where and what was this thread "shaming working mums" OP? Care to share? Or are you just bored snd wanting to kick off another riveting SAHM v WOHM thread? It's been at least a week since the last one. Yawn.

BlastedPimples · 03/08/2023 15:59

Everyone criticises mothers whatever they do.

Sahms, working mothers. Whatever.

The most scorn and contempt I've seen is reserved for SAHMs whose husbands have left them and now they're high and dry facing all the same household bills as when their h lived with them.

It's vile. All of it.

gingerguineapig · 03/08/2023 16:17

Whatafustercluck · 03/08/2023 10:09

Women.are shamed for staying at home and shamed for going to work. What we should be getting angry about is that men can make whatever choices they like and 1. Never get shamed and 2. Never feel guilty for their choices.

Very true - in fact if men stay at home they are seen as the perfect dad and if they work, well that's just normal.

OriginalUsername2 · 03/08/2023 17:23

I get the opposite impression of MN. Most women here encourage financial security and a career. I have never personally seen the opposite on this forum.

In real life I’ve been shamed for not working with comments like “It’s alright for you.. “ and later shamed for “dumping my child in a nursery all day” by the very same woman. You don’t get to win 😂

HedgesNotFences · 03/08/2023 17:25

I think there is a lot more shaming of mothers without a career. YABU.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 03/08/2023 17:40

I have seen plenty of shaming on here of both SAHMs and WOHMs over the years. It's inevitable that most of us notice the comments that seem to attack our particular circumstances more than we notice the comments that don't apply to our situation, but I'm not convinced that either side gets more than the other.

I am sometimes provoked by the goady comments that I see on here about WOHMs, but equally, I see a lot of unnecessarily nasty comments aimed at SAHMs.

It's all so pointless, as neither group has the monopoly on good parenting and our kids probably won't care much either way.

AnneAnon · 03/08/2023 17:44

gingerguineapig · 03/08/2023 16:17

Very true - in fact if men stay at home they are seen as the perfect dad and if they work, well that's just normal.

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I’m not sure this is true about stay at home dads. I think it’s a bit of an ick … (might not be the most forward thinking or mature thing to say but suspect many will privately agree with me…)

Newname211 · 03/08/2023 17:46

AnneAnon · 03/08/2023 17:44

I’m not sure this is true about stay at home dads. I think it’s a bit of an ick … (might not be the most forward thinking or mature thing to say but suspect many will privately agree with me…)

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Imagine thinking fathers raising their children is an “ick” 😂😂😂😂

People with opinions which belong in 1912 give me the ick, personally.

AnneAnon · 03/08/2023 17:53

I don’t think fathers raising their children is an ick.

I think men who don’t work are a bit of an ick.

just makes me think of that bloke in Motherland. Kevin?

Caprisunny · 03/08/2023 17:53

All women, especially mothers are judged.

I can't call it shaming because I never feel shame over my choice to work. It made mine and my children's lives, exponentially better.

I have no idea why the whole 'wohp vs sahp' is even a debate. But I also don't understand why people come on here, ask about their decision to sahp or wohp and ask for people's opinions on their set up then get upset when people aren't falling over themselves to tell them how wonderful they are. But people are odd

MrsRachelDanvers · 03/08/2023 17:55

Ironic as your post is nasty and judgmental itself.

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