"Therapy" is no better than a natter with a friend or a placebo.

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I am starting this thread to see what people think of therapy. I am personally convinced it is at least 80% useless - I am not saying completely useless, as I am sure talking about a problem makes you feel better, although you can talk things through with your pet rabbit - I used to as a teen! There is also some value in learning some techniques such as CBT, but that can be learnt from a book, so again, not sure of the value of an actual therapist.

I've come to this conclusion through two main sources, children and holocaust survivors.

I have known thousands of children through teaching, and fostering, and many many of them have seen therapists. My main observation is that huge expectations are placed on therapy as some sort of magic bullet that is going to cure all problems, but the result is inevitably disappointment, as nothing changes. Parents, and children too are left wondering what magic was supposed to have happened, and why it didn't. One fostering social worker once mentioned to me that she thought it was a complete waste of time after the age of 8, and I think she was right. Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

My other source is coming from a family of holocaust survivors, who never had therapy, and survived by not talking about hte past - Many went on to have long, happy, successful lives, married and raised families, ( including me!) . They did not discuss the past, and I was told not to ask questions. They were not totally without problems. I was aware of the occasional nightmare, and several of them were binge eaters who became obese in old age. However, they lived with this problems quite happily, and there was no talk or expectation of "therapy" of any kind to address them

So I have started this thread to see what others think. Maybe I am wrong - I am open to being told that I am wrong in this. My experiences have not given me any confidence in arranging for therapy for any child, or suggesting it for any adult, but please tell me if it is really in fact a wonder drug and I have missed the point somehow!

I should say I have been sent for therapy twice myself - once after being in a road accident in which my closest school friend died, ( aged 16)it was awful, made me cry every time, I felt so much better when I was allowed to stop, and once sent by my employer after I was knifed ( quite gently!) by a student at school - I was taught some useful CBT, but in my opinion a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey.

so:

YABU - therapy is helpful - and please explain how!
YANBU - therapy is a waste of time /a money maker/ sending someone for therapy or providing it is just a way of letting someone feel they are doing something useful, when they are not

I think if you have reached a point in your life where you have to pay a stranger to listen to you, then I think you have bigger problems.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a waste of time but I think it's massively overrated.

The couple of times I have tried it I've just felt worse through the constant overanalysing. It's like problems feel even bigger in my head because "I'm seeing a therapist over these issues so they must be really big and important"...

Don't get me started on the people who say everyone should just be in therapy all the time just because / "it's a sign that you're mature and well-adjusted"! Although we're better than the Americans in this respect at least.

Personally, therapy was hugely helpful in my circumstances. It gave me an outlet for my rage and misery, which meant not taking it out on my family/friends/myself. And gave me a place in which to think and consider my otherwise overwhelming emotions, and to understand myself better. It’s helped me form and maintain more healthy relationships than I would have done otherwise - in my opinion.

But I very much agree that it’s not a magic bullet. It won’t help everyone to the same extent. It depends a lot on the therapist. And it takes a lot of time and work, and often money.

I haven’t voted as I don’t think it’s as straight forward as yes or no.

I think (I know from experience) that not talking about stuff can make things far far worse and can lead to self destructive tendencies and behaviours.

I also think that many people are terrible listeners so trying to talk to a friend in lots of instances can be counter productive and things like boundaries are really important.

However I do think that it’s over technical and many therapists / psychologists have done an amazing job of marketing it. Having sat in many meetings with therapists / counsellors / psychologists where they argue the toss over modalities, use over technical language to elevate the reputation of the approach (researchers do very similar and it’s a sort of intellectual elitism) and worst of all, blame the patient when their therapy doesn’t work because they can’t think flexibly or humanistically about how they work, I can’t help but feel that many of us would be better off just talking to someone with decent social skills and a caring nature.

Don't get me started on the people who say everyone should just be in therapy all the time just because / "it's a sign that you're mature and well-adjusted"! Although we're better than the Americans in this respect at least.

In what way?

Well sort of, that is the point. Therapy is a non judgemental ear but shouldn't tell you what to do so if you are the sort of person who happily has deep conversations with family / friends / random people on the bus you would get the same benefits from this. If you are a massive people pleaser therapy would be a chore and likely not help too much. I prefer goal orientated approaches which could be skills gained through a workbook but most couldn't do it without guidance as I'm sure you know as a teacher.

It's not the therapy, it's your own appetite for insight and cognitive and emotional ability to process it with a guide.

I reckon everyone would benefit in the long run but we all have different levels of interest in doing the work. Just like everyone would be able to run a marathon with the right training but we all have different levels of interest in doing so. Some of us feel so shitty without it, it's necessary. Others find the perceived benefit not worth the effort.

Therapy changed my life. No exaggeration. But I was fortunate to get the right psychotherapist at my first try. I had very specific goals - wanted to unpack a particular childhood trauma - and in the process, discovered that a lot of my mental health symptoms were due to dissociation. Once my goals were achieved, I stopped the therapy. There were times when I felt much worse after sessions, but since the treatment has finished, I have overall felt much better. I used to have regular periods of depression, and those are completely gone. I have been able to face and accept aspects of my childhood, allowing me to put them in the past. I wouldn't say that I am "fixed" - I don't think that developmental trauma is "fixable", but I am more complete and present.

I do understand your point though - constantly talking and reliving events can keep you in them - I call it "trauma cycling". It can become a bad habit, as you feel better when you are letting it out, but it never really goes anywhere. However, working with the right therapist isn't like that.

A book doesn’t talk back to you. You can’t get any viewpoints about what happened to you other than what is in your head by reading. And often, what’s in your head in terms of what you think about what happened is a large part of the problem. Too, it’s much much harder for adults who had abusive childhoods to be able to recognise harmful thought patterns that were imposed on them from toddlerhood than it is for an adult who was raised in a stable, loving environment and is now experiencing these negative thought patterns as an recent sort of layer of cling film added due to a traumatic incident. Ripping off suffocating cling film and getting on with life is much easier than breaking apart what you thought was your identity and then rebuilding yourself.

It's not up to me or you to decide that therapy is useless for everyone, it's a very personal thing. Stuffing down every bad thing that happens to you and hoping it never surfaces doesn't work for everybody.

For me it was a complete game changer. I do think it depends on the therapist and the approach being right for you.

I was on antidepressants for years and had massive CPTSD issues as well as anxiety. I had a course of councelling (through a charity so minimal cost) which was effective to a point.

i then did two blocks of CBT through the NHS, second one was higher intensity or something like that. It worked fantastically for me and helped me to understand things and come up with techniques which work for me.

obviously it’s not a miracle cure but it has put me in a place whereby I have been able to come off all medication other than the odd propanaol for now

Yabu. “I’m all right Jack” is not a very persuasive argument.

Agree trauma cycling is not helpful. The idea is the make solid the problem and acknowledge it then either make changes or let it go. OK so that's a bit psychoanalytic rather than cognitive but agree some people need help to identify negative thinking patterns or beliefs, or to recognise poor behaviour from parents or partner. But really it shouldn't be about others perspective or reactions.

It works for some people and for some issues, but it’s not a silver bullet.

it depends what you can take from it.

I think that's the opposite in many ways though, half of ops example was children talking to friends so not pushing it away. Feeling it and then not dwelling. Ruminating is also something therapy helps to reduce.

Also, it very much depends on the therapist, there are some great ones out there and some that might be good, but are not right for you.,

I have therapy I'm the form of clinical supervision. For those that don't know - this means I don't have therapy for a particular need of mine, but because of my work and to allow a space to process emotions due to needing yo be emotionally stable at work (in a DSLin a very big secondary school).

I find therapy pointless.

I have to spend time before sessions thinking of what to talk about for 90 minutes. I'd rather spend that time doing other stuff. So the session itself is a waste if my time, as is 'prep time' before.

I'd rather just chat though my emotions with my husband/mum/friend/collegue. So I have nothing I 'need' to talk about with a therapist. I can see it may be different for people who are less emotionally literate or emotionally developed, but for me it feels faked and forced. I defo wouldn't pay for this.

My dd has close friends, she also is very close to me and I'm a good listener and very supportive. She has always spoken openly to me about her worries, struggles etc

She had therapy when her anxiety got so bad she couldn't leave the house. It saved her. If she hadn't had therapy she would have left university and her whole life would have changed.
Instead she was able to complete her degree and now has an amazing job and is back travelling and socialising.

Op, you do realise we're all different?

Therapy has been extremely helpful to me on a number of occasions. However it relies on two things. Firstly a good fit between therapist and client and secondly the willingness of the client to engage wholeheartedly and honestly with the therapy. Therapy is hard. It takes time and an ability to change. It is not an easy option.

I loved therapy after a series of traumatic events. Chatting with family and friends meant I had to manage their pain and distress during the conversation. Or people would try to reassure me, or comfort me and couldn't just hear what I wanted to say. A therapist was amazing at letting me get it all out. Also, I am so interested in psychology and a people pleaser high achiever type and I had to warn my therapist upfront that I'd appear to be doing amazing work on myself but I actually wouldn't and she was to really hold me accountable. So I was able to progress beyond what I could do myself from books. I had insights I would never have achieved without that therapist.

Depends what kind of therapy. Most psychoanalytic therapy is waffle and a waste of time IMO. The people who are “into” it never actually seem to get any better.

Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is, as I understand, the only form of therapy that is actually evidence-based, with data showing that it really does work to a significant extent. However, over the past couple of decades, the data suggests that even CBT is gradually becoming less effective, probably because it is becoming contaminated with the kind of identify politics and vague prattle that characterize other kinds of therapy.

Ok, lots of people saying it has worked for them, maybe I am wrong

I tried it after being rapped and found it made me feel awful - sharing my private feelings with someone who is only there because they’re paid to be didn’t make me feel supported or loved.

i think talking stuff through is hugely beneficial in processing but it ideally needs to be with someone who loves you and you can trust. I know there’s people who don’t have that so I guess counsellors have a role but I don’t think it’s a magic answer. I’m not sure tablets always are either.

A natter would probably help me loads… however I don’t have anyone to talk to. Therapy is better than trying to keep it all in.

Friends are not there to take the weight of someone else's trauma for them.

Therapists have to listen to the most awful things life can throw at a person. They have their own support systems to help them manage that.

I'm not sure therapy can cure all ills but it can take the edge off to be able to talk about things.

I've had to talk to a therapists about things I've dealt with the in police from suicides to murders, baby deaths, domestic abuse, self harm, horrific injuries, rapes, all sorts of things that have bothered me over the years and I can't talk to friends or family about to protect them and the people involved.

My best friend is a rape survivor. She doesn't need to hear about the most awful rape and murder case I've ever seen or heard of. No one needs to hear it. It's beyond personal to that woman for one thing. It's never left me and I still picture her injuries 20yrs later.

I'm not sure any Holocaust victim could ever be "cured" of their horrific experiences. Same for many other types of extreme trauma.