"Therapy" is no better than a natter with a friend or a placebo.

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I am starting this thread to see what people think of therapy. I am personally convinced it is at least 80% useless - I am not saying completely useless, as I am sure talking about a problem makes you feel better, although you can talk things through with your pet rabbit - I used to as a teen! There is also some value in learning some techniques such as CBT, but that can be learnt from a book, so again, not sure of the value of an actual therapist.

I've come to this conclusion through two main sources, children and holocaust survivors.

I have known thousands of children through teaching, and fostering, and many many of them have seen therapists. My main observation is that huge expectations are placed on therapy as some sort of magic bullet that is going to cure all problems, but the result is inevitably disappointment, as nothing changes. Parents, and children too are left wondering what magic was supposed to have happened, and why it didn't. One fostering social worker once mentioned to me that she thought it was a complete waste of time after the age of 8, and I think she was right. Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

My other source is coming from a family of holocaust survivors, who never had therapy, and survived by not talking about hte past - Many went on to have long, happy, successful lives, married and raised families, ( including me!) . They did not discuss the past, and I was told not to ask questions. They were not totally without problems. I was aware of the occasional nightmare, and several of them were binge eaters who became obese in old age. However, they lived with this problems quite happily, and there was no talk or expectation of "therapy" of any kind to address them

So I have started this thread to see what others think. Maybe I am wrong - I am open to being told that I am wrong in this. My experiences have not given me any confidence in arranging for therapy for any child, or suggesting it for any adult, but please tell me if it is really in fact a wonder drug and I have missed the point somehow!

I should say I have been sent for therapy twice myself - once after being in a road accident in which my closest school friend died, ( aged 16)it was awful, made me cry every time, I felt so much better when I was allowed to stop, and once sent by my employer after I was knifed ( quite gently!) by a student at school - I was taught some useful CBT, but in my opinion a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey.

so:

YABU - therapy is helpful - and please explain how!
YANBU - therapy is a waste of time /a money maker/ sending someone for therapy or providing it is just a way of letting someone feel they are doing something useful, when they are not

I would say that my therapist changed my life. The process took 4 years and it is the most valuable thing I have ever done. It taught me so much - specifically about myself, my motivations, and my behaviours. It gave me the life skills I need to become a far better person. I will be forever grateful for the experience.

YABU.

I’ve had therapy for several things, and they’ve all helped in ways that friends can’t.

-My therapist was the first person to actually make it clear to me that what I went through with my parents was abuse.

-My therapist was more honest with me than friends about the negative way I dealt with things and felt towards people. It changed my life for the better.

-My latest therapist specialised in postnatal mental health, which a lot of people can’t identify with and can’t help with.

I suppose it also depends who else you have in your life to talk to.

I sometimes think that the fact that someone has been given therapy is more helpful than the therapy itself. When someone feels their upset or anxious feelings has been recognised as a problem they feel better. The therapy itself is often just someone listening to you and showing empathy. I had therapy once when I was going through a tough time. It was really just a supportive friend type of feeling.

I disagree. I don't think it's as simple as saying it's no good.

For starters there a varied types of therapy, and most people only ever experience CBT which is good but not for all types of issues.

People with BPD respond, typically, better to DBT for example.

And no, talking to a friend isn't the same. Most people are inclined to pull their punches, and sympathise with their friends and loved ones. A decent therapist won't do that. They'll push you to explore and unpick things. They'll push you to evaluate the other person's view point. They give you alternative view points.

Also, I don't hold the belief you should lay everything on friends. They have their own life issues and don't need to hear all of yours. Sure share somethings, but no the untrained person shouldn't be expected to listen to their friends trauma and know how to help them.

But therapy is a work in progress, it's not a magic bullet. It's not 4 sessions and done. It should, when done right, teach you and support you and be a gradual process that you then use throughout your life.

The thing is, not everyone has a non-judgemental friend or family member they can talk to about things. People can get defensive, or minimise problems, make excuses for their behaviour and the behaviour of others, or not have the emotional literacy to talk about issues, so even if you did want to talk it through with them, they might not want to talk it through with you.

If you have issues relating to your parents divorce, or your sexuality, or the way your parents behaved during your childhood, you may well not be able to discuss it with your parents/family/siblings because they can get defensive, or seek to avoid conflict, or find it too difficult to talk about. Who else can you talk about these things with? Surely it's better to find a trained therapist who can listen without judgement and help you find ways to resolve your issues.

haha @ChinHairDontCare I also have to warn therapists and coaches that I'm really good at pretending to be doing the work!! Its such a good thing to do - well done for your honesty!

From the opposite perspective, I also had a friend who was constantly depressed and talked about suicide. I tried to help him but all it did was bring me down with him, and I was later told there’s a reason therapists exist, because they are professionally trained to deal with these problems and help the person without emotional detriment.

Most of the issues you mention are very specific traumatic incidents (holocaust, accident, knife). Some people do better not going over these and sometimes it’s just time.

But therapy can be very useful for when people are trapped in patterns and cycles of thoughts, behaviours and relating to people that they have learned from the past and are unaware of. Patterns that were once learned as a response to situations at the time but are no longer helpful, damaging even, but persist. In the safety of a good therapeutic relationship these patterns can come out, be made conscious, explored and addressed. Unhelpful behaviours and thoughts can be reflected back and examined in a new light.

Also some people need to do some growing which they can do in a good secure therapy relationship when given certain conditions from an emotionally stable trained person.

I’ve had some very good therapy at different times in my life which has helped change me but it is very much dependent on how good the therapist is. I’ve found really good therapists are few and far between.

It depends on so much. People often recommend it on here as if therapy will solve your problems- it won't. What can help (for example, with repeated bad relationship choices) is time, honesty and effort. Seeing a therapist is one way to make the effort but it isn't the only one. Talking to friends can help (although not always- depends on the friends. Sometimes what you need is to be challenged rather than supported.)

Also worth bearing in mind that no therapist ever said, "actually, you seem fine- save your money".

All the above applies to normal, run-of-the-mill problems. I think there's definitely a place for professional help where someone has experienced significant trauma.

I am not saying holocaust were "cured" - I am saying they chose to cope with the past by not talking about it, which was normal then, and seemed to work very well, better than I have seen therapy work. I know very few details, but what I do know is horrific beyond words, so I am amazed, looking back, that they all went on to have happy lives, and it was without any "therapy", which has always made me think, what is the point of therapy, if it is to get you to the stage of living a normal happy life, when that seems to happen best without therapy

Yanbu. I think your body and mind copes by eventually pushing those memories to the back of your mind.

An opinion and a pulled from the air % is just an opinion.

Sometimes talking to someone who is neutral on an issue or has no stake in the outcome of any decision you might make actually helps you to see problems from all angles and perhaps reach a better conclusion.

I've had therapy twice and both times found this to be the case.

But also some times just a good catch up with a friend putting the world to rights is all you need.

I think it very much depends on finding the right therapist for you.

With the wrong one, you aren't able to fully open up and respond and be open to their suggestions. So it's effectively pointless.

There also has to be a willingness on your part to do some "work" and not just be a passive participant.

If you can get the chemistry right and understand what you need to do to move yourself forward, I think it can be hugely beneficial.

Absolutely not. My therapist has helped me uncover abuses, helped me understand why have certain coping mechanisms, helped me reposition myself, create boundaries, helped me uncover abuse.
The help my therapist has given me has changed my life.

Okay you said it much better than me!

I sort of agree with you and sort of don't. The one thing my therapist did that my friends didn't was to call me out on my bullshit. When I was trying to focus on others during therapy , she wouldn't allow me to deflect and would try and turn it back to me. It really helped me to take responsibility for my part in the things that had fucked me up.

You have to be a certain type of person for therapy to work...

It works for me as I am the type of person who gives too much of myself, finds it difficult to say no, constantly thinking I'm the problem.....So therapy helps me immensely - the whole "It's not your fault" needs to be spelt out to me. Also I am very self aware and can analyse and interpret my feelings.

DH on the other hand seems to fail completely - he tried therapy, but has little understanding of his own issues and therefore when he tries to describe the problem he can't articulate beyond the "I'm unhappy"... As an aside he also has misophonia (I was just reading that thread 😂) and like those people on that thread he has no understanding that munching, sniffing and chomping is what everyone does including him....so he struggles to understand why I get cross when he accuses me of chomping etc. He has no concept that he is at "fault" not me, as it's his misophonia that is the problem. He therefore he can't solve his misophonia as he thinks the solution is with me being "quieter" not him IYSWIM.

Like so many things, it depends on the nature of the therapy, the skill of the therapist and your own honesty with yourself.

I’ve had ACT for chronic pain issues and it genuinely changed my life; I went from using a stick to running C25K. Nothing changed physically, I still live with chronic pain, but how I approach it mentally and the limits I allow it to put on myself are completely different. I wouldn’t have been able to make that change alone or by chatting to friends, she gave me insights and techniques I’d never considered.

One experience of therapy here and it was absolutely awful. I was so embarrassed for the therapist that I lied and told her I was better when actually I was horrified that she had shared so many of her own mental health issues with me that I thought if I stayed with her any longer I would have to report her. NHS talking therapies.

I disagree.
My anxious/depressed teen is finding it very helpful.
I also talked to a counsellor for around a year to help me cope with above situation. Because she was independent I could offload in a way I couldn't do to family and friends.

I 100% agree that therapy is not a magic bullet, and far too much expectation is placed on it. Anytime anyone has a problem, the advice is 'go to therapy' which will not instantly solve everything! However therapy, in conjunction with focussing on physical health, relationships, work-life balance etc., can change your life. Not instantly, but over time, small, incremental changes build up to a different life. Therapy has helped me get over a period of severe mental illness (and all the lost opportunities and life that brings) and got me out of a work and life rut.

A good therapist (not all therapists are created equal! Some are just not that good at their jobs, and others are not a good fit for you) will do so much more than act as a sounding board or throw out advice from their own perspective, as a friend might do. A good therapist will help you understand yourself better, consider what you want moving forward and how to shake off habitual patterns that are dragging you down. Training and experience make a difference here too. Both my therapists were integrative which means they drew from a range of psychological theories and had practiced in the field for over a decade (one had a doctorate in counselling psychology).

As others have said, making the choice to go to therapy and being open to it are huge factors in whether it makes a difference in your life. If you've been effectively forced to go to therapy (which it sounds like for the two occasions you mentioned), I'm not surprised it didn't work for you!

How do you know the internal worlds of the Holocaust survivors? Family can be very good at hiding things from each other - especially parent to child. Just because they didn't speak to you about their memories and struggles, does not mean it was not adversely affecting them. Also, there is a massive generational gap in terms of willingness to have therapy and seeing the value in talking to others about their feelings, so therapy likely would have been out of reach for them.

Bottom line: therapy is not a magic bullet but can do so much to help you understand and improve yourself and come to terms with things that have happened.

Hard disagree OP. The things I've been able to discuss with a therapist are things I have never talked about with anyone. These are not the kind of thing you drop into a conversation with a friend over coffee or on cocktail night or at your monthly book club get together. The work I've done with a therapist, combined with my own reading and research, has quite literally saved my life.

I agree OP.

I think therapy creates intense navel gasing and blaming others for the way you are.

I've had A LOT of therapy. It's helped in some respect but I've done so much better without it.

I needed to take responsibility for my actions rather than blaming my childhood. Therapy (every single therapist I had) would be talking about my childhood (some therapists cried in the sessions at my story) and validated my poor behaviour. It wasn't helpful. I needed to learn how to take responsibility and not blame others.

There is only so much inner child work you can do.

The most helpful aspect is now I can talk about my past without crying (mostly). But I'm still a dysregulated person if I'm being totally honest. I just manage it better and I manage it better because I have a routine, I exercise, eat well, force myself to do things like go for a walk when I don't want to but I know it will help me feel better (and it does really annoyingly, like splashing cold water on your face also does) and have created a lovely life with close friendships and certain members of my family.

What I needed years ago was a boot up the bum to get into a routine and to take care of myself instead of intense navel gazing about my childhood.

I find it helpful. It's a good way to think through and process your experiences and thoughts, without distraction. Also friends tend to want to fix things, whereas therapists just listen and repeat pertinent points back to you, as well as teaching you methods to deal with feelings better (e.g. CBT).

I've had three lots of CBT and one lot of EMDR over the past 20 years, and I found them all very helpful in different ways. (I did have one attempt at therapy in my teens which didn't help, because I was in no way receptive to it and would rather have been anywhere else.)