"Therapy" is no better than a natter with a friend or a placebo.

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I am starting this thread to see what people think of therapy. I am personally convinced it is at least 80% useless - I am not saying completely useless, as I am sure talking about a problem makes you feel better, although you can talk things through with your pet rabbit - I used to as a teen! There is also some value in learning some techniques such as CBT, but that can be learnt from a book, so again, not sure of the value of an actual therapist.

I've come to this conclusion through two main sources, children and holocaust survivors.

I have known thousands of children through teaching, and fostering, and many many of them have seen therapists. My main observation is that huge expectations are placed on therapy as some sort of magic bullet that is going to cure all problems, but the result is inevitably disappointment, as nothing changes. Parents, and children too are left wondering what magic was supposed to have happened, and why it didn't. One fostering social worker once mentioned to me that she thought it was a complete waste of time after the age of 8, and I think she was right. Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

My other source is coming from a family of holocaust survivors, who never had therapy, and survived by not talking about hte past - Many went on to have long, happy, successful lives, married and raised families, ( including me!) . They did not discuss the past, and I was told not to ask questions. They were not totally without problems. I was aware of the occasional nightmare, and several of them were binge eaters who became obese in old age. However, they lived with this problems quite happily, and there was no talk or expectation of "therapy" of any kind to address them

So I have started this thread to see what others think. Maybe I am wrong - I am open to being told that I am wrong in this. My experiences have not given me any confidence in arranging for therapy for any child, or suggesting it for any adult, but please tell me if it is really in fact a wonder drug and I have missed the point somehow!

I should say I have been sent for therapy twice myself - once after being in a road accident in which my closest school friend died, ( aged 16)it was awful, made me cry every time, I felt so much better when I was allowed to stop, and once sent by my employer after I was knifed ( quite gently!) by a student at school - I was taught some useful CBT, but in my opinion a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey.

so:

YABU - therapy is helpful - and please explain how!
YANBU - therapy is a waste of time /a money maker/ sending someone for therapy or providing it is just a way of letting someone feel they are doing something useful, when they are not

People talk a lot about "doing work on themselves" in therapy.

What does that actually mean?

I once had a few counselling sessions following a couple of sudden bereavements and a difficult time at work (I’m a teacher). I found being able to articulate my thoughts to a stranger whom I knew wouldn’t judge me, had no agenda and could be impartial, to be very cathartic.
She listened, made suggestions, gave me ‘exercises’ to do to reduce my anxiety at the time and helped me unburden myself of the feelings that were, quite frankly, crushing me. It enabled me to put the past into perspective.

What a strange thing to say.

I took my son to play therapy when he was dealing with a horrible trauma but not able to speak about it. He didn't speak in the sessions (well he "spoke" through his play) but afterwards, each time, he would open up to me a bit more. He is a different, stronger, child as a result

I have had CBT twice (sent by Occ Health). It was helpful when I was 40ish and made me realise I had choices within a difficult situation. A few years later another counsellor told me that I’d done the work myself and understood the techniques, she couldn’t help any more.

Late 50s had proper therapy to stave off a nervous breakdown pre-redundancy. It did the job and I might have continued with it had I had unlimited cash - hugely expensive. I don’t think a friend could have done the same.

That’s wonderful, Blossom. So good to hear.

Not everyone has someone to talk to.

YABU to say therapy is no better than a batter with friends. Sure, when you are struggling mentally maintaining friendships and seeking comfort from being with friends is really important. But that's it, your friends cannot and should not be an outlet in that way. Firstly, they may not have the emotional capacity themselves. Secondly, most of us aren't trained to listen in a way that is helpful, we often just naturally turn conversations towards us or try to minimise/reassure people in a way that isn't always helpful if you are suffering with your mental health (but is to totally normal if you aren't suffering).

I have PTSD from childhood trauma and no amount of 'nattering with a friend' would have helped that. Therapy gave me the space to talk about what happened and how it impacts me. The therapist gave me the tools and the direction to help myself out of the difficult mental state I was in. They don't fix it for you which is why you need to be it he right emotional state to have therapy. It also very much depends on whether you find a therapist and a therapy that is right for you.

I really couldn’t disagree with you more. I’m one of those people who thinks everyone should have therapy just to learn what makes them tick and how to manage their feelings and reactions. It absolutely changed my life and me as a person for the better and I’d never have reached the level of emotional health I have now without therapy.

There are different types of therapy though and one approach that is great for one person might not work for another - for example I hate CBT precisely because it doesn’t delve into and unpick deeply held trauma. Many psychologists even describe CBT as a sticking plaster rather than a cure. I think it can work for mild anxiety though.

I NEEDED to do that delving and unpicking and I honestly think everyone should - yes, it can be painful to start with and even make you feel worse before it gets better but it’s absolutely worth it to understand yourself and ensure you can take the best emotional care of yourself possible. I didn’t have a healthy relationship until after I had therapy, and without it I truly believe I would’ve continued repeating the same dysfunctional patterns forever.

Some therapists are better than others. Some are awful. You need the right model of therapy and the right person for you or it likely won’t work or will feel wrong. I have to say I don’t think your example of Holocaust survivors is a good one. You give clear examples of the ways their trauma manifested, and you can’t possibly know the extent of the trauma they were holding in. Pushing down and ignoring trauma doesn’t mean you’re happy and healthy (although for people who’ve been through such a horrific thing, bog standard therapy probably wouldn’t be enough).

The problem is that the best most effective therapy is often only available privately so I can understand why someone who’s only had it through the NHS would feel it’s pointless and shit - I felt the same til I got a private therapist because unfortunately it’s so underfunded in NHS healthcare.

Self reflection; resilience; coping mechanisms... it will mean something different to each person, I imagine.

Therapy was life-changing and possibly life-saving for me. But it was HARD, took a long time and I was fortunate enough to be able to afford it. It's not just talking to someone: it is an active process. It takes real effort on your part and it takes time.

It was absolutely not something that could be done with a friend or family member. Nor would it be fair to put that onto a friend or family member.

I don't believe that the way to deal with trauma is to pretend the thing that happened to you didn't happen. To not talk about it. Because that's what I did and as I got older I completely unravelled. You can tell yourself that you're OK but your mind and your body know that you aren't - and manifest that 'illness' in both behaviour and physical ailments.

Interestingly, my Dad spent his whole life pretending that the very traumatic thing that happened to him as a kid didn't happen. He never spoke about his childhood. Like holocaust survivors he just packaged it up, put it in a box, and got on with his life. It worked for many years - until something triggered those memories. They're out of the box. They won't go back in. And he's a total mess because of it.

There are lots of different reasons why you might need therapy. It's completely false to say no one needs it. For me, for my dad, for different reasons - we absolutely did.

It helped me
My F00 completely nuts but think they're perfect, so there was a lot to unravel. I'd still be the person I needed to be to survive my family of origin in my 50s if it weren't for therapy. I was that version until 35 tbh.

Not to derail the thread, but clinical supervision is not therapy. It is not 'therapy about work stuff'. If that's how it's been described to you, your supervisor is doing it wrong and it's no surprise that you're not getting much out of it.

And maybe you didn't mean it how I read it, but describing people as 'less emotionally literate or emotionally developed' than you feels quite judgemental about those who find therapy useful.

MASSIVE YABU.

There's a huge, huge difference between counselling and psychological therapy. Having had both, I found counselling practically useless but psychological therapy saved my sanity.

If your understanding of 'therapy' starts and ends at CBT, you shouldn't even be discussing this. Speak to some clinical psychologists and patients, find out about different clinical pathways and outcomes, and maybe you'll have your mind opened.

I agree. I would not want to offload on my friends as they have problems of their own. I found talking to a complete stranger and being given coping strategies helpful although I am sure I could have found the latter online. The only time when you can just talk about yourself without being seen as self centred and feel guilty.

I'm sure it is very helpful to some, especially those who maybe feel more comfortable opening up to a 'kind stranger' than to friends/family etc. I've tried therapy twice and didn't personally find it very useful - if anything it just dredged up a load of stuff from my childhood etc that had no relevance to my current situation and made me feel more depressed. It also very much felt like the therapists were just going through the motions rather than genuinely caring (which must of course be true to a certain extent, but it felt very obvious and fake). Maybe that was just a mismatch of personalities between me and the therapists concerned though.

I do hate seeing therapy being held up as some kind of cure-all and people being chastised for 'not helping themselves' if they haven't sought therapy. I see that all the time on here - as if all the OP's mental health issues, low self esteem, trauma, relationship problems etc would be completely fixed if she could only be arsed to go to therapy. Quite apart from anything else it's bloody hard to get on the NHS and prohibitively expensive for many people if you go private.

I am curious about EMDR which sounds potentially more useful to me than talking therapy or CBT. I will be trying it as soon as I can afford it haha.

YABU because everyone's different

Can’t speak for everyone but for me I had dysfunctional attachment patterns because of my childhood. I couldn’t form healthy relationships and I’d never had a relationship that wasn’t short lived and toxic or abusive.

In therapy I learned why this was happening and where it stemmed from. I learned the things that triggered me in romantic situations. I gained a massive understanding of myself and my emotions and how to change the pattern by asking myself questions if I felt anxious, responding differently if I was being treated badly (e.g calmly dump someone who didn’t meet my needs rather than kick off and scream in the hope it would change someone) and really prioritising my emotional needs and communicating that healthily to someone else. I’m now in my longest and best relationship ever and we’ve never had an argument! It was hard but so worth it.

I honestly think most therapy is dangerous. Yes there are great therapists who are truly talented at helping people. But a lot of the industry is populated with people with deep problems themselves. Who drag people further down paths that they actually need to get off of. They encourage people to enlarge their problems rather than help them to find ways to genuinely move forward. I've seen way too many people go from troubled but mostly coping to having their lives essentially ruined by who they became through therapy. It's dangerous and should be highly, highly regulated. Including stiff 'gate-keeping' at entry level for training.

What a nasty comment.

Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

Helping people understand themselves and their emotions is literally the point of therapy. Which you’ve missed 😉

I think many children/grandchildren of holocaust survivors would heavily disagree with you. Coming from the Jewish community intergenerational trauma is talked about a lot. I myself was treated really badly as a very small child by a childcare provider who had been in concentration camps. I am sure a bit of therapy would have helped that poor woman.

If you have great friends who you can talk to you are really lucky, not everyone has that.

It’s about realising who you are and how you’re impacted by whatever has led you to that particular therapy. You can then use that as a starting point to begin to learn coping mechanisms and to understand why certain thought processes are unhelpful or untrue.

if your not willing or able to put in the work to make it work then it won’t. It’s not just about 1 hour a week it’s about allowing the healing to happen at all times.

I’m reminded of the scene in Crocodile Dundee, where in New York the American woman is explaining to him about a friend who’s having therapy.

Crocodile Dundee: ‘Hasn’t she got any mates?’

I became disabled (and via that one of the hated fat people), I had therapy around acceptance (my life had completely changed because of CF ) and went through techniques for social anxiety. I needed the face-to-face input. It's great if you have people around you who you can open up to and are completely understanding and can say the right things, but most don't. IME people love to get digs in when someone is vulnerable and they can cause you to stay down. I trained in counseling, it helped me in my work. It's helping people reason things out, very often family have agendas, some to stay in a relationship/job/house, others to leave etc etc. Sometimes you need a sounding board from someone who has no skin in the game. One of my initial essays in my level 1 counselling included my previous opinion that therapy was someone self absorbed wallowing in self pity. But that was because I had no idea what good therapy was.