"Therapy" is no better than a natter with a friend or a placebo.

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I am starting this thread to see what people think of therapy. I am personally convinced it is at least 80% useless - I am not saying completely useless, as I am sure talking about a problem makes you feel better, although you can talk things through with your pet rabbit - I used to as a teen! There is also some value in learning some techniques such as CBT, but that can be learnt from a book, so again, not sure of the value of an actual therapist.

I've come to this conclusion through two main sources, children and holocaust survivors.

I have known thousands of children through teaching, and fostering, and many many of them have seen therapists. My main observation is that huge expectations are placed on therapy as some sort of magic bullet that is going to cure all problems, but the result is inevitably disappointment, as nothing changes. Parents, and children too are left wondering what magic was supposed to have happened, and why it didn't. One fostering social worker once mentioned to me that she thought it was a complete waste of time after the age of 8, and I think she was right. Between the ages of 5 and 8, you can possibly use therapy to teach children a bit about the emotions they are feeling, which can help them understand themselves, but beyond that there seems to be no benefit

My other source is coming from a family of holocaust survivors, who never had therapy, and survived by not talking about hte past - Many went on to have long, happy, successful lives, married and raised families, ( including me!) . They did not discuss the past, and I was told not to ask questions. They were not totally without problems. I was aware of the occasional nightmare, and several of them were binge eaters who became obese in old age. However, they lived with this problems quite happily, and there was no talk or expectation of "therapy" of any kind to address them

So I have started this thread to see what others think. Maybe I am wrong - I am open to being told that I am wrong in this. My experiences have not given me any confidence in arranging for therapy for any child, or suggesting it for any adult, but please tell me if it is really in fact a wonder drug and I have missed the point somehow!

I should say I have been sent for therapy twice myself - once after being in a road accident in which my closest school friend died, ( aged 16)it was awful, made me cry every time, I felt so much better when I was allowed to stop, and once sent by my employer after I was knifed ( quite gently!) by a student at school - I was taught some useful CBT, but in my opinion a book would have been more helpful than a difficult journey to speak to someone who was basically going very slowly through what I could have read for myself in half the time without the train journey.

so:

YABU - therapy is helpful - and please explain how!
YANBU - therapy is a waste of time /a money maker/ sending someone for therapy or providing it is just a way of letting someone feel they are doing something useful, when they are not

Anybody reading this who resonates with the amazing posters, please, please dont dismiss it.

This seems to me to be part of the problem - the idea of therapy as something administered to you, that 'works' as a drug might. It's an interaction - the therapeutic relationship, with two people in it, is its foundation. At various points in my own therapy I described it as 'hard labour'. But it has been instrumental in making my life livable.

Then there's the (related) idea that a few sessions are, or should be, enough to 'fix' you. I'm in a country where the minimum course of CBT available on statutory insurance is 25 sessions. The minimum. Often this is extended by another 25. And psychoanalysis starts at 100. The therapist has to provide an individual rationale to the insurer as to why it's needed in this particular case before they'll cover it.

Therapy won't 'cure' everyone. Surgery and chemo/radio don't cure all cancers. Very sadly, people still die of them, and some have a much lower survival rate than others. But nobody sensible would call those treatments 'ineffective' in general, or suggest that a cancer patient shouldn't try them. Mental health conditions have similar ranges of prognosis and greater or lesser intractability.

I hope anyone reading this thread who was considering therapy isn’t put off by some of the comments on here. Therapy is far, far, more than ‘nattering’, and as a Clinical Psychologist who spent years training, and much of my own money doing further training, I feel offended by that.

I adore my job, working with people who have been haunted by their past experiences, who feel stuck in vicious cycles of thinking, feeling, behaving, who feel they can’t burden friends and family with their darkest thoughts and fears. Yes sometimes it helps to talk to people who know us, but the majority of my clients comment on how useful it is to speak with someone neutral and objective.

I have also had my own therapy as part of my training. We didn’t natter. She helped me look at some uncomfortable truths about myself and my experiences within a safe relationship and I am a better mum, partner and friend because of it.

I did note from your first post- you said you were ‘sent’ to therapy. In my experience that can make a huge difference as to how much someone benefits from therapy. If you feel ‘sent’ or ambivalent about it, it will be less effective as you will be less invested in it.

❤ I currently work in a role, outing, but provides counselling to a specific group of people. I'm horrified by this thread.

I've read all the thread.

OP said two interesting things. One was to ask "What is 'doing the work, anyway?'".

The other was to say "I was raised by binge eaters and I am a binge eater too, but there isn't any suffering or trauma associated with it".

I respond- doing the work means willingly experiencing your own pain. Feeling it, not surpressing it, not trying to make it go away, but exploring what happens when you try and get your brain to respond differently to a painful stimulus. It's very brave because humans are programmed to avoid pain. It's why I said it's like training for a marathon- you push and push yourself to sit with the pain.

You're a binge eater, OP. Commiserations, I'm one too. There's no pain you feel right now. When you meet a hard emotional trigger you don't need to feel pain, you soothe with food!! And so you don't feel the pain. Things are stable, there is no reason you need to address the pain. So long as your eating disorder doesn't in itself make you ill, or as long as you don't for example move on to use alcohol or gambling or drugs to do that job for you - as they are more dangerous more quickly.

If you were in therapy, your work might start with choosing a binge eating moment and then...simply not eating. How might you feel? What might surface? What might that tell you about yourself? It would hurt like buggery, and you would soon feel the discomfort intensify and intensify. But if you wanted to break the process of smothering emotions with food, it might be interesting.

Would you be brave enough?

A lot of kids are just brutally honest with anyone.

As adults even when nattering with a friend we might apply a filter, whereas with a therapist you don’t know you can be completely honest if you wish and that is very liberating for some.

For some people though there is something to be said about forgetting and not talking about things, e.g. some people with ptsd respond better when focussing on how to avoid flashbacks….reliving the details of the trauma isn’t always helpful.

I had EMDR as part of therapy for PTSD and even though I was the biggest sceptic about therapy it was life changing.

I'm waiting for this type of therapy. Whilst talk therapy has helped to an extent (an avenue to vent when I don't have any other avenues), it hasn't really changed things around for me. I'm hoping, really hoping that EMDR makes a difference.

I had bereavement counselling with cruise after my mum died. It didn't really work. There was one thing the Counsellor said that stuck with me but really i just sat and cried and felt awkward. I really wanted more from it. But its volunteers who are the therapist's and i just needed more. I know they have training but i just felt i was sitting crying to someone who just looked at me. And i waited 6 months till the person was available, its not like you can pick and choose who you see.

Is this matching with mind?

With counselling you can absolutely choose.

Sorry I missed the cruise point . Like with mind it is volunteers. Not counsellors.

We dont recommend grief counselling til 6 months in.

I've been in therapy for a while now since dh took his own life. Obviously I would feel a lot better some years after that event anyway. And I can't tell you exactly why it seems to help me. So it's not very convincing. All I can say is that when I have stopped, things get worse. Personal conflicts, illogical decisions, self destructive behaviours.

It is of course noticeable that therapy has grown in popularity in societies where religion is declining, and also where formal conversation is less common. Regular ethical and personal discussions are normal in most religions, and where there is a clerical class of people, that's their role. I am not going to talk to a vicar or a rabbi and find religion unhelpful now. But even thigs like regular visiting and deeper conversations or correspondence just aren't supported. Therapy is about the only place I have those conversations any more.

💕

If therapy feels like chatting with a friend, the therapist is totally not fit for purpose! It's not supposed to be a friendly chat, you're there to draw out upsetting, painful things which are affecting you and you often don't want to accept yourself, let alone to a friend.

Also challenging negative core beliefs (which a good therapist will help you identify) is really hard work and it's pretty pointless if you're not in a place where you're ready to bring it out to process it.

I was forced into therapy as I had a panic attack when on the motorway with DC in the car. I had had them for a few years at that point but refused to accept they were panic attacks as only pathetic, weak people had them not someone hard as nails like me (know better now). I'd had medical investigations as I was insistent that they were physical symptoms rather than psychosomatic. It was the first one I'd had while driving. It terrified me and I knew I could not continue like that. Desperation took me to a hypnotherapist who I naively hoped could hypnotise them away quickly but that opened a big can of ugly worms and led to 5 years of on and off therapy.

I had undiagnosed OCD from childhood which was diagnosed by my GP shortly afterwards, after the hypnotherapy gave me the courage to seek further help, and is notoriously difficult to 'cure', but I am now 99% not bothered by it and that was due to an excellent trauma therapist putting the ground work in to help me work through severe childhood abuse and the core beliefs about myself which stemmed from that before I started therapy for the OCD.

Therapy has given me a great understanding of the human psyche too and my DC have definitely benefited from having a mother who's very open about mental health and understands the importance of it unlike my own who used to threaten me with taking me to the 'shrink' to get locked up which is what prevented me from getting help earlier and suffering for so long.

I personally think if everyone underwent a form of trauma therapy/debriefing from their childhoods at age 18-25 the world would be much better and safer place! Obviously impossible in practice.

The vast majority of the terrible things that humans do to each other are due to unresolved childhood trauma/injury to the developing ego including world wars and greed for money and power. On a smaller scale, road rage, I always say 'what happened to you then' when an aggressive twat cuts me up!

It’s simply not true that there is more mental ill health as people are talking about it more. Measurements of rates of mental ill health in children and teenagers have shown year on year increases, across all the measures, particularly in the last 15 years and especially amongst teenage girls. It’s a real effect.

This is such an interesting point.

Lots of interesting points. There are definitely some unhelpful modalities and practitioners. One thing that jumps out from the OP is all the protective factors and tools (resilience) you have. This comment leapt out, “after I was knifed ( quite gently!)”

YABU. I had EBT when I had PND and anxiety. It helped me work out a lot of stuff, taught me coping behaviours and how to rationalize my thoughts, and helped me understand how much stemmed from my - at times - dysfunctional childhood, and where DH had let me down after DC was born.

It’s a very good question.
I had cbt recently and felt it didn’t really help although it did make me realise why I went down certain thought patterns/behaviours. By the end (was nhs so didn’t pay) I cba with it as was so repetitive.
My adult DD loves therapy and would be in it permanently (not in it atm)! But it has to be the right fit.
DS (v late teen) has had several goes at it, he’s prob neurodiverse but none of them have picked this up. He’s not keen on it and thinks talking to his friends is as good (but I think it’s over burdening and I’ve said as much - that goes both ways - he’s had friends who have done the same.
I think it’s too much to put heavy stuff on friends all the time, which is where therapy comes in. There are different types and cbt won’t suit everyone- and some conditions can be helped with effective therapeutic input alongside drugs, chsnge of lifestyle etc.
Also grief/bereavement counselling has its place and that’s something I wish I had had when younger.

PermanentTemporary your post is so insightful and really resonated with me. I’m very sorry for your loss also.

I personally think if everyone underwent a form of trauma therapy/debriefing from their childhoods at age 18-25 the world would be much better and safer place! Obviously impossible in practice.

CanNeverThinkOfAName what you said is right. It’s why I waited many years to have children. I knew wasn’t ready to touch my own childhood issues, and I didn’t know about therapy as a place to approach them, and wouldn’t have had the money to, so my issues felt to me unresolvable except by having a great partner relationship. A very, very risky strategy that.

I also instinctively knew from my mums unresolved issues that it would be awful for any kids I had if I ploughed on with becoming a mum without something changing for me. And once I did have DC (which was before I had therapy despite all that) it was incredibly hard.

I’ll be honest that in motherhood I’ve also definitely used MN as a place to have regular conversations that were unavailable to me elsewhere whether ‘therapeutic’ or not. I have seen that in a lot of other posters too. I think becoming a parent for women or men is a life stage at which some universal therapy or debriefing would be very valuable too.

YABU. Just because it didn't change your life, doesn't mean it hasn't changed other lives.

At one point I was out of control, self harming myself and trauma-informed therapy saved my life. Now that I am older, I see many people my age who find it invaluable, and post-pandemic have become a part of their lives as they cope with the new normal. Talking out things regularly to a person who is qualified to help you recalibrate your life, if you can afford it, it can be life changing.

Your family / long term friend, yeah you can talk to them, but they can never be impartial or objective. Everyone has their own agenda. A lot of people just don't have the time to be my free therapist. And I'd never dream of dumping my troubles on my friend/family. I'd rather pay and get professional help, just like how I pay for other medical services when I need them (I am not from UK)

I was 6 months in.

All the pluses of therapy, of course, hinge on getting the right therapist. I was fortunate to have one like that. If you are not, then it can be a very very frustrating and disappointing experience.

I had therapy to help me through a traumatic event in my life. I had plenty of friends and family to talk to but this event happened within the whole community and everyone i knew was also struggling to come to terms with it. I was able to get space with someone who was removed from the situation to explore my feelings and responses to the event and she did EMDR with me. It found it very helpful.

I’ve recently tried therapy (CBT) and I found it useless. In fact it added to my stress to be honest. Maybe I will re visit it one day, but right now I found the whole thing a waste of time and an extra thing to worry about.