Date got me to pay for expensive dinner - bin?

[Jonesjonsy]

Met a guy online. First date, walk in the countryside near to where he lived. Seemed a really nice guy with great interests and gorgeous dog! Stopped at a cafe and had sandwich lunch about £8 each, no alcohol or anything. Very kindly he offered to pay and I accepted. no kiss or anything like that.

Second date he said he was going to be working near me and would I like to do something. I offered to book a pub dinner near to where he would clock off. Again it went well I thought, but conscious on seeing the prices on the menu I knew I wouldn’t want him to pay for me particularly as he had bought me the sandwich. At the end of the meal when he asked for the bill, I said you paid last time so I don’t want you paying again. He misconstrued this as me saying I would settle the whole thing (what I meant was we just had split it) and I guess I was so flummoxed that this had happened I just paid especially since the waitress was kind of hovering over us… I was embarrassed to talk about it. Bill was £110!

I guess I just wonder if this is a major red flag. I don’t know him well enough to determine and honestly it’s put me off I don’t think I want to meet up again. Yes I can afford it as I’ve worked really hard to build up my own business. I didn’t tell about money at all and am not flashy but I did talk about what I do and maybe he just made a assumption? AIBU?

But I do thank them for it! I just don't reference the money part. Yes, using the word "generous" in reference to something someone has just paid for absolutely refers to the monetary expense. Anyone arguing against that is being goady. You wouldn't say 'thank you for your generosity' if someone paid for a Starbucks, would you?

And now here you go with the mental gymnastics about people not spending enough on me, when that's not at all what we're talking about. I would feel extremely awkward if I paid a bill and someone made a show of thanking me. A sincere thank you is enough.

You clearly have a massive insecurity about your lack of knowledge of etiquette. Go and read a book on it and stop complaining to me. Nothing I'm saying is remotely controversial. Someone said the bloke should have thanked her for her generosity - I'm saying that plenty of people wouldn't, because they consider that crass. It doesn't make them a user or rude, as long as they said thank you for the evening in general.

Thank you for the etiquette lessons, ilyana. They have been inspirational.

And this is nonsense, because there's no way anyone would reference generosity unless the amount was what they considered high.

Maybe you wouldn't. Some of us have a different idea of what it means to be generous.

Ok fellas (I know some of you are here)...if you do decide to pay for dinner, and the lady says "Thank you, that's very kind/generous"...are you offended?

Or the women here, for that matter. If you bought him dinner and he said that, would you think he was an ill-mannered oik?

The reason I made the point was that I was saying it wasn't rude not to explicitly reference the amount spent. The poster said something like "he could have at least said thanks for the generosity" given the size of the bill, and my point was that etiquette-wise, that's actually a faux pas, so I don't think it would be fair to judge someone for that. He did say thank you.

You're now pretending that the bill being (to OP and most others) high isn't pretty much the sole reason that this thread even exists, and that we'd all be hear going back and forth about him not thanking her properly for a £3 coffee...knock yourself out.

As I said, you're being goady and arguing in bad faith, and I don't have time for it.

Curiouser and curiouser.

If another date comes up set the expectations early: yes, I'd love to see you again. I'm free on x date and y date - just let me know when and where!

Then he's in charge and you can see what he plans and if he offers to pay etc etc. Should give you a better idea if he's a cheeky sod or a modern day feminist 😉

@ilyana is correct.

I've collected and studied etiquette books for 40 years.

One thanks for the hospitality, not for the food or the amount spent. So gauche.

Referring to the monetary value of a host's offering is beyond the pale. Outings and visits are supposed to be primarily for companionship, with food or other amenities as incidental. Date Guy was perfectly correct to thank for a lovely evening without gushing over the amount that OP forked out. His manners sound quite good, actually.

Referring to the monetary value of a host's offering is beyond the pale.

This assumes that any thanks for generosity is a comment on the actual amount spent.

If you are under no obligation to give someone anything, then anything you do give them is generous. That's the point that people sneering at inexpensive drinks as not constituting generosity are missing.

At any rate, the true purpose of etiquette is to make people feel comfortable and at ease in your company, not to condescend and sneer. If one's version of it means not thanking someone for dinner but making repeated attacks on the Internet, I'd say it's not fit for purpose and I'm more than happy to eschew it.

Until she goes on a third date and gets more of an idea of his character it’s anyone’s guess what he’s really like. Maybe he’s sick of always footing the bill, maybe he thought OP was kind and generous, maybe he’s all for women’s equality and wanted to be wined and dined for a change or maybe he’s a just an idiot tight jerk. Hopefully OP will let us know, if she has another date with him. I’m getting quite curious 😁

I've collected and studied etiquette books for 40 years.

Have you tried speaking to actual humans? Just a thought.

What good would that do? It would be much easier if everyone actually just followed social rules instead of expecting people to read their minds and saying things they don't actually mean. It's bizarre.

Social rules like not being abusive on the internet? Social rules that aren't actually universal and nowadays can even cause offence or hurt? Social rules that are exploited by a certain type of person to condescend rather than put people at ease? Social rules that clearly change with the times, or else we could just look at a guide from 1850 and have done with it? Social rules that, given the examples presented here, don't mean jack when it comes to actually treating people with mutual respect?

And if you truly don't mean it when you thank someone for buying you something because you don't think it cost enough to warrant it, it's in your own best interests not to make that known.

"the true purpose of etiquette is to make people feel comfortable and at ease in your company, "

Nope, not true. Though this gets trotted out a lot by people who are unclear on the concept.

Well I guess that's consistent with the idea that there's no good to be had in talking to people when trying to work out how best to treat them.

However, it shouldn't take 40 years of study to work out how to be pleasant company.

Yeah, etiquette books will tell you what people are supposed to do according to some self-appointed expert.

But in real life, it's perfectly normal, polite and acceptable to say thank you for a meal, or "thank you for picking up the bill, it's my shout next time".

Since he paid for the last one and you offered I don't think it's that awful, maybe he's thinking he'll pay next time and you'll take turns? Maybe he didn't want to annoy you by going on about half when you'd offered? I mean if you chose the venue then offered - maybe he just thinks you think nothing of paying that for a meal

The only time I've used etiquette books is when trying to work out whether I should call someone sir or lord. They're for rule bound situations, not normal, everyday life where it's better to talk to people and see how they feel about situations.

They're also behind the times in the same way that the Oxford Living Dictionaries are...they adapt once a particular word is in established use, but they will be out of date for a while until they catch up with how the world actually is.

And they are intended to put people at ease, the idea being that we know how to act in certain situations. But in the modern day, with multiculturalism, changing gender roles, class fluidity and other things, those rules are not so fixed with what actually comes across as rude or offensive...and the idea that one needs to spend years learning, or refer to fairly esoteric texts, rather defeats the object of it all being well established. The very fact that a significant number of people would be offended at not being thanked for dinner means the rule is out of date. Shouldn't surprise anyone that times change. After all, if they don't, then why not spend a few minutes reading a rule book from 1850 and all is good?

And again in real life, rudeness, abusiveness and condescension should be considered worse than any harmless error. If your dinner guest uses the fork as a hair comb, she may have made a mistake. But nobody who delights in sneering at her for it has any business lecturing others on how to behave.

Abusive on the internet? You mean, things like dragging personal issues talked about on other threads onto a different thread to try to help support your weak arguments? Yes, that's very abusive...but you're the one doing that, not me. I haven't been abusive to anyone.

Who said anything about thanking someone for buying something because it didn't cost enough to warrant it? It certainly wasn't me.

You really should see someone about your inferiority complex. Lashing out because you can't handle someone stating a fact isn't a good look.

I'd say you were stating an opinion, not a fact.

Only people don't actually do that. They say one thing, mean another, get angry that the other person didn't read their mind, and then create long threads here asking for opinions.

Even if I were, it certainly doesn't warrant bullying and abusive behavior. There's absolutely zero reason to drag things from other threads because you don't agree with what someone is saying. It's classless behaviour.

All your posts towards me have been highly abusive, since I questioned whether your brand of etiquette was working since by your own admission, it hasn't translated into you being treated well by those who presumably pass the test. This wasn't meant as an attack on you (and I do apologise if it came across that way). It was a question about the intention and outcome of this valued "etiquette". But you have been hurling insults ever since.

I normally report insults, attacks and name calling. I haven't this time because at the same time as abusing me, you're lecturing on class and etiquette and, well, I thought you were making the point rather well. And yes, if you're going to treat people like that, then expect me to consider that when you've also mentioned that people respond badly to you.

I haven't been abusive in the slightest. You have repeatedly personally attacked me, brought in things I've said on other threads with the sole intent of hurting me, and been generally unpleasant, bullying and harassing.

You've also, multiple times, put words in my mouth and accused me of saying something I hadn't said at all. Nowhere did I talk about "passing a test". I don't give people tests. I said it didn't make sense to judge someone for not thanking someone for their generosity when etiquette dictates that best practice is to thank for the company and not reference the money at all. This is literally a thread about etiquette around paying for a meal.

Where have I "hurled insults"? Go on, I'm waiting.