To say that you definitely CAN make a rod for your own back when it comes to sleep, and it’s unreasonable to tell first time parents otherwise?

[NameChange547]

First time round I bought into the whole gentle sleep thing… there’s no such thing as making a rod for your own back, sleep training is evil, it’s completely developmentally normal for children not to sleep through the night or sleep in their own beds until they’re off at uni etc. etc. (hyperbole, obviously). Parents are supposed to be completely exhausted and if you can’t cope with that then you’re selfish and don’t love your child enough to just put up with it.

I fed to sleep, contact napped and co-slept for 7 months at which point I was a zombie of a human with no relationship, sex life or me time. My child was entirely reliant on me to fall and stay asleep and had no sleep skills whatsoever of their own. I then had to sleep train which was much harsher than I would have liked ideally, but I was at the end of my tether. My baby and I were both exhausted. I barely had the energy to interact with them and we were both grouchy and miserable all the time. Once they slept through the night we were both so much happier and my baby started to thrive.

We went away with friends a few months ago who are in a similar position with their 18 month old. She spends hours feeding to sleep and then spends every night on a floor bed with her child while her husband sleeps elsewhere. Child wakes up 4+ times per night to feed. Friend confided that the strain it’s putting on her relationship with her husband is such that she feels they could separate over it, and yet she is adamant not to sleep train because of the damage she feels it could do to her child. She isn’t planning on having any more children because of how hard sleep has been for them.

I’ve recently had my second and was determined to do things differently from the start - minimal feeding to sleep, baby puts themself to sleep (no need for leaving to cry because we’ve done it since day 1), cot naps about 75% of the time in the day and always at night, co-sleeping is rare. Baby naps well and is waking once to feed each night at 3 months old, occasionally sleeping through. Baby is well rested, calm and easy to comfort. It is so much easier this way. So, so much easier. I actually feel so angry that I wasted the first 7 months of my older child’s life being so exhausted, frustrated and unhappy.

Why do people continue to argue that you can’t create bad sleep habits for your child when you so clearly can? And by doing so you’re likely to be either setting yourself up for years of utter exhaustion, or for some very tough sleep training later down the line? It’s like a horrible trap that first time parents are being tricked into.

I’m aware this is going to be very unpopular with a lot of people, so I’m bracing myself for the anti sleep training brigade to come at me!

You're still in the 4th trimester at 12 weeks. Its cruel. There's better way to do it. I did a strict bed bath routine and it worked and help my son self settle. Also got him used to naps during the day in his cot.

totally agree with ya. this is why my sis in law still has to lie down with her 11 yera old son each night to help him go to sleep 🙈🙈 can't stay at anyone's house without his mammy. Will start seminary school next year.

From about 5/6 weeks old*

I co slept with both of mine, slept through from 6 months . Friend sleep trained, still wake up several times a night at 4. Completely anecdotal but my point is often it’s more about the child than the method. Neither of us judge each other, just recognise there are different ways to do things and we all do what’s right for our family
Same here
I breastfed mins to sleep, contact napped and co-slept safely.
My friend had a schedule, sleep trained and did cot naps.

Children are in the same class. Both are good sleepers, both are thriving, both had good parents who focused on meeting their baby's needs instead of trying to win an imaginary prize.

Knowing someone who’s children are now in juniors (so 7+) and still won’t settle alone, 100% agree with OP. It is bleeding into every facet of her life, affecting her work, her free time, her friendships and her mental health. I think it’s much more cruel (and also far more difficult!) to try and “train” a 10 year old out of it who has slept that way their entire life than to be a bit firm with an older baby/toddler, and so she is trapped.

Is 12 weeks not the end of the 4th trimester?

And what exactly do you think is so cruel about sleep training?

You also need to be prepared to rethink and be flexible at different stages @Emmamoo89 if something isn't working.

Mine were in a routine but one we fell into rather than lots of controlled crying- maybe just letting them settle themselves when they were tired and not unduly distressed.

Then perhaps they woke up more and needed more comforting when teething.

They both also had a phase being two or three when they had difficulty getting off to sleep on their own- perhaps developmental changes, starting pre-school, development of imagination etc. Controlled crying certainly didn't work there - it would soon turn into uncontrolled hysteria! Actually sitting in the room with them while they went to sleep/reading them to sleep was easier.

Then DD1 had a phase about when she started school of waking in the night and not being able to get back to sleep. Sometimes sitting with her would work, sometimes not and we were all knackered and frazzled. That time we had to consult books and work through a more structured programme with her to get used to falling back to sleep on her own. (A book called What To Do When You Dread Your Bed).

Other than - all of the above - for most of their lives so far they have been good sleepers.

A good dose of This Too Will Pass also helps. I can tell you they do not have any trouble sleeping now as teenagers - but again can sometimes have trouble falling asleep if you don't try and help them manage their habits/sleep hygiene. Or you need to try and persuade them to talk things through that are worrying them and keeping the awake. Then with neurodiversity they may need melatonin or other help to go to/stay asleep.

Different stages of life sometimes require different approaches and it isn't (unfortunately) the case that if you have them in a routine at six weeks, you're set for life.

I suspect most people who are opposed to sleep trained think it’s all Gina Ford / leave your baby to scream endlessly.

I had to go back to
work when my dd was about 6 months old. Night shifts. I had to sleep train so she slept for my parents who looked after her. It was tough but she quickly settled into going to sleep at 7pm and slept through. I did used to feed her at about 4am when I got home and then she’d sleep until 8am. She’s 13 now and still gets a solid 12 hours every night. Best thing I did was sleep train and would do it again if I ever have more babies.

Mine had absolutely no routine and slept through. So again, it is nothing you can control. It is just the child's temperament.

It's so tricky. I agree with you but I had to get through reflux before I could sleep train as a last resort. Digestive issues basically equal poor sleep with my kids.

DC 2 is also a horrible sleeper but at only 3 mos I'm having to grin and bear it. Cannot wait to introduce a bit of gentle training and no... I have never done crily it out

Got my son is the same routine now and he's coming 16 months and still going strong. Yes has some bumps when poorly and teething but other than that he's been great. Even during the bumps I make sure to keep to routine.

Nope. It's the first 14 months. I don't think it's cruel just think it's too soon to do it

4*

I hear you OP.

Family member staying here with non-English speaking wife, and their two year old born only after years of infertility. Child only ever goes to sleep while breastfeeding in bed, whether nap or night time. Never sleeps in pushchair or car. Nap often until 5pm or later so bedtime nearer 9-10pm with no certainty of a lie-in (though tbf I haven’t woken before 7am, so if up in the night they settle again).

I can and do bite my tongue!

I absolutely believe that parents can create sleep associations, like feeding to sleep, which then cause a particular type of sleep issue (typically waking every 40 minutes or so, often shows itself around 4 months). And sleep training does solve this particular issue.

However I also believe that some babies are naturally much better sleepers than others - may be linked to feeding issues, underdeveloped digestive system, or just naturally a lighter sleeper - and that following all the rules or routines in the world will not turn a poor sleeper into a good sleeper.

And vice versa, if you have a good sleeper it probably wasn’t your approach that did it. In reality, you were only able to follow that approach because your baby was a decent enough sleeper to go with it.

I would suggest the Little Ones programme to help you troubleshoot any sleep problems. It might be something as simple as room not being dark enough, needing some white noise or slight adjustment to sleep schedule to increase/decrease sleep pressure. Little Ones is a gentle programme that doesn’t involve CIO but is, IME, very effective for most children.

Yeah I get that and I think its the same with my son. He loves sleep. Still has a 2 to 3 hour nap during the day. But routine does help. They do thrive on it.

I agree with others that say it depends on the baby. My first DD had reflux and lactose intolerance, she just couldn't get comfortable in her crib so we rocked her to sleep and contact napped until she was about 2.5 when she just started sleeping through without us doing anything differently.

My 2nd DD has slept in her own crib since she was 2 weeks old, and still wakes up for a night feed or 2 but usually goes straight back to sleep afterwards. Totally different temperaments and one didn't have any of the digestive issues that the other did.

minimal feeding to sleep, baby puts themself to sleep (no need for leaving to cry because we’ve done it since day 1), cot naps about 75% of the time in the day and always at night, co-sleeping is rare.

I did that. Still had a shit sleeper.

It's the luck of the draw a lot of the time.

Yep. I agree.

I also think you can be far too attentive, especially when it comes to daytime napping (which despite logic is necessary for good night sleeping). With my first the second he cried I'd be there and then often juggling a grumpy baby for hours afterwards..

With the second I often has to extricate myself from play doh or all the other messy stuff the big one was allowed during nap time. In the time that took baby had often fallen asleep and stayed asleep another hour. There's nothing wrong with giving it a minute or two to check they actually want up and are not just resettling.

IMO you’re right, but then I had my babies in the late 70s/early 80s, when 4 hourly feeds were the norm for a new (average weight) baby, and nobody thought you were desperately cruel if they cried for a few minutes when put in their cot to sleep.

Even if you breast fed (I did) it was not a case of ‘cluster feeds’ or having them plugged in virtually non stop* it was the same - 6, 10, 2, 6, 10, 2 - and the 2 am feed was dropped at maybe 6 weeks.
(*No wonder so many new mums get sore nipples.)

My DM (who had 4) always used to say that if you fill young babies up, they will sleep. OK, there will always be exceptions, but IMO the bigger, tummy-filling feeds at longer intervals, rather than endless mini-feeds, is more likely to achieve that.

Both of mine thrived on this ‘archaic’ regime, and except for a few initial weeks of classic 3 months’ colic for the 2nd, were very happy, contented babies.

Absolutely agree with you!

It is luck.

I fed to sleep, coslept and had loads of sleep, never sleep deprived ever! Seriously, not one night without sleep other than one night she was in hospital with a high fever. Also my baby would sleep until 7 in the week and 9 at weekends. I could have written your post from another angle, saying how much simpler life is if you do things my way and how much extra sleep you get if you take the gentle approach.

I was just lucky, I was blessed with a great sleeper, who slept like a baby.

Totally agree. People really martyr themselves when it comes to sleep and breastfeeding.

However I also believe that some babies are naturally much better sleepers than others - may be linked to feeding issues, underdeveloped digestive system, or just naturally a lighter sleeper - and that following all the rules or routines in the world will not turn a poor sleeper into a good sleeper.

@minipie i agree with this but think only a very small percentage of children fall into this category. A good sleep consultant can help to identify these type of issues and make suggestions to mitigate them.