How to politely ask FIL to NOT touch me

[Bluesky5512]

I’ve known FIL for the last 15ish years. He is 75. He has been a thorough gentleman all through. Inlaws live in the US, we visit them every year. MIL passed away a couple of years ago in a sudden accident. Ever since FIL has been visiting us more often and at times staying for 2-3 months at a time. We stuck a friendship during his recent visits. We talk about politics, astronomy (is was a professor) and yoga (my passion). I see him as a father figure and a friend. DH works in a hospital and I work from home. I take FIL out and about with me - grocery, school runs etc

He has been acting weird lately. Pinching my cheeks, Putting his hands on my shoulder, and yesterday on my waist. WTF !! I was totally taken back and he doesn’t seem to realise. He was never a “creep” IYKWIM. But this touchy behaviour is making me very uncomfortable. I don’t know how to tell him to stop without ruining our friendship.

Well there were plenty of surgeries who will arrange appointments with carers, care homes and relatives even if LPA is not in place.

This isn’t very clear: I mean they will allow a relative, carer or care home to make an appointment for the patient.

You probably mean would have done these days. It’s well nigh impossible to get a GP appointment for anyone these days.

You could make an appointment but you can’t book someone in to be assessed for dementia.

It's not her job or obligation to get him assessed. But if FIL is staying at their house for several months or even a year at a time, it could become her problem. As living with a dementia sufferer becomes increasingly difficult, regardless of who is responsible for them.

I really hope that he doesn't have dementia at all and that enforcing her boundaries (as I've always said she should in either case) works well. I just don't see why considering the possibility has caused so much controversy on this thread.

Having come late to the thread and admittedly, only skimmed through it, I wondered the same thing. Posters seem to be obsessed with putting boundaries in place, with no thought to the fact that if his change in behaviour is due to dementia, or other brain changes due to age, he won’t be able to keep to them, because he will have little or no control over the behaviour.

Seems to be very harsh to just abandon him to his fate, particularly when you consider that dementia sufferers who have no -one advocate for them, tend to be taken advantage of when it comes to money and property. So if his family are unwilling to help him when he needs it, I hope they don’t find that some unscrupulous casual ‘carer’ has helped themselves to his assets - such as the one who’s just been in the news having been convicted of defrauding a dementia sufferer out of of over £60,000. The OP says she had established a friendship with FIL after he was bereaved, so I find it unfathomable why she or the family are so unwilling to help, given what may be at stake.

so I find it unfathomable why she or the family are so unwilling to help really? You can’t think of a single reason she might not be best for placed to help? Wow.

I appreciate it’s difficult but she has a family connection and a friendship with him. She posted originally because she wasn’t sure how to tackle him without affecting their friendship so she obviously cares. All I’m saying is that if the family care so little that they won’t at least try to help, then they can’t moan if there are unexpected consequences.

All I’m saying is that if the family care so little that they won’t at least try to help, then they can’t moan if there are unexpected consequences. what on earth do you mean

@ZairWazAnOldLady the father in law stays with OP, in the same house, for several months and up to a year.

Just purely thinking of OP, if her father in law has dementia then this is going to get worse. Regardless of what she does, it's a progressive disease. He could get aggressive, his behaviour could become even more difficult. She might want to have a plan for that because whether she's responsible or not, if she's in the same house then she will be affected.

Treatment to slow down the progression of the disease would make life better - not just for him but for everyone around him.

It might not even be dementia. But 1 in 14 people aged 65 or over in the UK have dementia. It's very common. And it often starts just like this, as many people on this thread have said. There may not be other symptoms initially. There's really no benefit to anyone in ignoring warning signs rather than ruling the possibility of dementia out early on. I don't know why I'm bothering to argue about this.

What do you suggest op does? Specifically

Grab his wrist and remove his hand from you and just say, "No thank you."
If he wants to take the conversation further, he can, but I hope that he would be embarrassed and it would put him in his place?

@SquirrelMadness It might not even be dementia. But 1 in 14 people aged 65 or over in the UK have dementia. It's very common.

this suggests it’s more like 2% of adults between 65 and 69 and the majority are women.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/reports/profile-older-adults-dementia-their-caregivers-issue-brief-0#:~:text=KEY%20FINDINGS,adults%20aged%2090%20and%20older.

As several posters have pointed out he’s living in the same house as OP for long periods of time. If the change in behaviour is due to some form of dementia, then symptoms are already showing. So how long do you think it will be before things get worse ? It makes no sense to just assume that he’s suddenly become ‘handsy’ when it’s never been a problem before, and the change in behaviour could suggest illness. Other changes in behaviour could be on the way, including aggression. OP will be in the firing line and the rest of the family are burying their heads in the sand.

The OP posted for advice on how to handle this without ruining the friendship, and she’s held off tackling him for quite some time, so she obviously cares about him, and most of the advice as far as I can see, has been to confront him, tell him to back off, and set boundaries. Which is fine as far as it goes, and no-one is suggesting that she should have to put up with this, regardless of whether or not he is ill. But as has been pointed out over and over again, if he has dementia, no amount of confrontation or boundaries will make any difference because he isn’t in control of his behaviour. If the friendship means so much, why such reluctance to get to the root cause ?

It’s all very well digging up statistics on dementia to try to support the argument against it being the cause, but the fact is, his age and recent bereavement, and the fact that this is a sudden onset of new and out of character disinhibited behaviour, all fit. So why are his family not stepping up, given that if he is ill, the consequences of simply ignoring that possibility could become much more serious as things progress undiagnosed and untreated.

Given that she’s the target of FIL’s behaviour she should insist on family support for a start. They are ignoring the fact that if the behaviour is due to dementia, it will worsen and possibly become aggressive, which is putting the OP in harms’ ways as he spends long periods of time in the her home. That’s unacceptable.

The recent NHS statistics state "1 in 11 people over the age of 65 have dementia in the UK." If you'd like to take this up with the NHS, be my guest.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/dementia/about/

I was quoting out of date statistics from Alzheimers UK previously.

@Mummy08m
This exactly. Dementia doesn't just make life difficult for the sufferer, it makes life more difficult for everyone around them.

I can't really see the benefits of ignoring the dementia possibility. People seem to be suggesting that she can't possibly say "no" to FIL, tell him she doesn't like to be touched etc etc. And on the same day or in the same week, also have a serious conversation with her DH about what they would do if it is dementia.

Raising the issue of dementia does not stop her from enforcing her boundaries and I'm really irritated that people keep misrepresenting the posts about dementia in this way.

and she’s held off tackling him for quite some time, so she obviously cares about him, that’s really not why women who’s boundaries are pushed in this way don’t respond or report, though can be used against them.

The recent NHS statistics state "1 in 11 people over the age of 65 have dementia in the UK." If you'd like to take this up with the NHS, be my guest.why would I need to “take that up with the nhs”. When a simple google search will allow you to understand that fact more clearly. What I read was that those patients were predominantly female and in their eighties. The statistic was being used to increase the concern that the man has dementia because it was much more common than everyone thought. But 1 in 11 wasn’t the incidence for a man in his late 60s, but instead for everyone over 65.

The OP is not in charge of her visiting FILs health. She is responsible for keeping herself and her children safe. She would like this not to be happening and would love to be able to politely stop the behaviour. I think that’s utterly understandable and feel so sorry for her because it must be terribly upsetting.

My advice is to confront him and ask him directly not to touch you. You don’t need to apologise, sound angry, or give a reason. If he continues I don’t think you can host him anymore. I would explain that to dh and stand by it. If FIL has a medical condition that causes disinhibition then how to manage that if he makes it your problem could be addressed once it’s diagnosed. I know there are several posters that are concerned about dementia but some medication can be problematic too.

So your sympathies are entirely with the OP regardless of what’s driving the behaviour ? No regard for a 75 year old man who may be about to fall victim to a horrible, tragic disease ? Just confront him and then if the behaviour continues, simply cut him loose and leave him to his fate. Wow.

@DotAndCarryOne2 I’m not going to apologise for prioritising the OPs need to be safe from anyone’s unwanted touching. She is married to the man’s son not a slave to endure whatever his male relatives needs are. It speaks volumes that you are unable to prioritise the woman’s safety and well-being. Wake up.

Op has already raised the issue of dementia with her dh, who was dismissive. Dh is fil's next of kin and who might be in a position to get him assessed.

I'm not sure what all this repetition about dementia is in aid of.

Op knows dementia is a possibility. There is literally nothing more she can do about it.

People continuing to point out that it's a possibility (which, I think, no one is denying) is a waste of op's time, if she's even still here

The reason I keep posting is in response to all the posts claiming it doesn't matter if the FIL has dementia. I do think it's important on a thread like this to explain why it does matter.

The attitudes towards elderly relatives on this thread is absolutely disgusting. As someone with a close elderly relative who has dementia, I find it really quite upsetting. I can only think that people don't understand what a tragic disease ut is.

No, she’s not. Like others posting here, she just has first hand experience of dementia and recognises the red flags. And I have never advocated the OP put up with the behaviour, regardless of the cause, but given that FIL is spending a lot of time in her home, not addressing dementia as a possible cause puts her in harms’ way if things deteriorate. His family need to stop pretending it’s not a problem and support her.

This. We’re constantly told to look out for exactly the kind of behaviour in elderly relatives that FIL is displaying. It’s disturbing and depressing to read some of the callous and frankly ignorant comments. Sadly we’re wasting our breath.

I am with those who are disturbed and depressed about attitudes about dementia on this thread. Yes, it is appreciated that there is only so much the OP can do, but the more recent posts on this thread are intended less for the OP and more for those who seem to be luxuriating in their ignorance of the realities of dementia and are being really quite offensive now to those who are aware of those realities and can see how this might be affecting the OP, her FIL and the family as a whole.

I wonder if it would be easier to comprehend if the OP had posted about an elderly relative who kept bumping into thing in her house and damaging them? Would it be considered enough to tell him to be more careful - and suggestions that he might perhaps be losing his eyesight be scorned and dismissed?