How to politely ask FIL to NOT touch me

[Bluesky5512]

I’ve known FIL for the last 15ish years. He is 75. He has been a thorough gentleman all through. Inlaws live in the US, we visit them every year. MIL passed away a couple of years ago in a sudden accident. Ever since FIL has been visiting us more often and at times staying for 2-3 months at a time. We stuck a friendship during his recent visits. We talk about politics, astronomy (is was a professor) and yoga (my passion). I see him as a father figure and a friend. DH works in a hospital and I work from home. I take FIL out and about with me - grocery, school runs etc

He has been acting weird lately. Pinching my cheeks, Putting his hands on my shoulder, and yesterday on my waist. WTF !! I was totally taken back and he doesn’t seem to realise. He was never a “creep” IYKWIM. But this touchy behaviour is making me very uncomfortable. I don’t know how to tell him to stop without ruining our friendship.

Junior doctor covers a range of years of experience - some are just out of med school and some are just below consultants. The majority of junior doctors are in specialty training to be consultants. It’s a moot point tho as I was talking about the GP-consultant hierarchy.

I meant she was not correct that you cannot discuss a relative with the GP. You can give them information and they can call the patient in for an appointment, it’s just that they can’t give out information. But that’s not needed anyway at this point.

How fast a dementia patient is diagnosed depends now advanced it is. Referral and diagnosis can be fast if the patient fails the basic GP cognitive tests but that sets the bar quite high. Dementia is a long slow illness and onset is generally around 9 years before diagnosis. The earlier you catch it the better wrt treatment. It also depends how it manifests - some people get personality and mood changes before they get cognitive problems some get cognitive holes first.

I meant she was not correct that you cannot discuss a relative with the GP. You can give them information and they can call the patient in for an appointment,

I was correct. GPs won’t do that. They will only make an appointment if approached by the patient. I know because I tried.

I'm very much pro women standing up to and not accepting male harassment so it does upset me to see the posts about dementia being misinterpreted in this way.

You're right that yourself and several other people have explained why it matters to consider dementia very clearly, so like you said not really worth arguing it further.

Maybe people just assume that dementia just means being a bit forgetful, I'm not sure. I don't know whether anyone is seriously suggesting that dementia might be used as an excuse for bad behaviour. I guess until you've experienced a loved one going through the stages of dementia, it's hard to understand how awful and tragic it is.

I'm going to go and cook dinner rather than try to argue it further.

Re-read my post.

It rules out option (b), that he is an arsehole.
Option (a), dementia, can now be considered.

I’ve done it with different elderly people and different GPs. In the context of dementia, a person with cognitive impairment can lack insight into their true state of health and mind.

That's just your GP. I make appointments for all my family members - I am the social and health secretary (aka the only person willing to wait an hour on the phone)

And my GP will also still do house calls if phoned, by relative or carer, if needs be

So will mine and other GP surgeries I’ve dealt with.

I meant theory, not option. And have paraphrased theory (b).

I think I am agreeing with you! I am saying that he needs to be informed of what the boundaries are as he has clearly lost the plot for whatever reason and is overstepping.

@SquirrelMadness On what basis are you saying the other reasons are "more likely"? How do you know what is more likely? I think most people are aware there are more creepy gropers than people with dementia who show no other overt signs of the disease. Daughter in laws have been subjected to this nonsense for generations (daughters too).

Regardless it’s not the FIL I think we should be focusing on. I’m sure he’ll find lots of people to excuse his behaviour and ask the DIL to be kind. @Bluesky5512 you don’t need to accept this behaviour on any level. If FIL has a medical condition he still isn’t someone who should be handling you.

GPs shouldn’t be discussing anyone’s condition with anyone else without the express written permission of the patient, who has to nominate a representative. And no-one else can make a health related decision on behalf of someone with diminished capacity without lasting power of attorney or guardianship. If the patient lacks capacity to nominate someone then the office of the public guardian appoints someone independently.

FFS !!

Mine won’t arrange house calls or appointments with anyone but the patient, their nominated representative or someone with LPA.

Dementia isn’t ‘losing the plot’ as you so disrespectfully put it. It causes lack of cognitive function and the sufferer has no control over their behaviour. So I’d love to know how you would ‘inform ‘ a sufferer of what their boundaries are, and ensure that they keep to them.

I’ll give you an example of the futility of trying to reason with someone with dementia. My 92 year old mother has advanced vascular dementia, which has completely obliterated her personality and caused extensive cognitive function and loss of bodily functions, including bladder incontinence. She has been provided with padded, waterproof underpants to stop her wetting the bed, as the loss of bladder control happens when she sleeps. It has been explained to her time and time again that she must wear the pants in bed as well as during the day. Despite explaining why, and the consequences if she doesn’t, every morning the pants are clean and dry on the floor of her bedroom, where she has taken them off, and the bed is soaking wet. And that’s just one example, so to suggest you can just explain boundaries and the problem is solved, is utter bullshit.

Dementia, in its’ various forms is a heartbreaking and indiscriminate disease that wrecks the life of the sufferer and forces loved ones to watch as they literally fade away in front of them. Time and time again we’re urged to look for early signs because the earlier it’s diagnosed, the more can be done to slow the progression. But not on Mumsnet - no, far easier to dismiss it as perviness and for you to minimise this in the way you have is insulting to sufferers and their families. This has degenerated into a disgusting and ignorant thread, and I’m out.

Same. I had to give the surgery a copy of my mum’s POA.

Thank goodness that poster has left. There appears to be an unwillingness to accept that this man is not a loved one of the op. He's a problem she has to grapple with.

He may have whatever condition but it is not op's job to look after him by letting him touch her.

At no point has anyone suggested OP should let her father in law touch her.

But a lot have suggested he is a loved one who needs her care. Speaking as one who's cared for a parent with dementia I have a lot of sympathy with posters' stories about their own loved ones and what to do with gp etcetera but this is a non British citizen who is about to leave for the states in September so the persobal care stories and gp issues don't apply to op for now. What matters for her is getting her dh to take the situation seriously so she is not left with the burden of managing the man's behaviour without support. I'm looking forward to hearing what the sh does next and any updates about op. I hope dh takes it as seriously as she does for all their sakes.

it is not op's job to look after him by letting him touch her

for the love of god would you stop. There is literally not a single person on this thread who has said OP should let him touch her. No one. Everyone agrees she must set that boundary if it’s making her uncomfortable.

I'd go further, it's not op's job to assess him for dementia or even set the steps in motion to get him assessed.

She may wonder in her mind if it's dementia or not.

But there's zero she can do about it even if she decides it probably is. Op isn't close enough to fil to contact his doctor. The most she can do is suggest it to dh - which she has already done.

Furthermore, it's not even her obligation to do so.

I get on very well with my MIL, and also with my FIL although we are less close. But even if I thought one of them was unwell it'd be DH and his siblings who would coordinate any medical intervention, the most I'd do is suggest it to them. And vice versa if my mum was ill, that would be my responsibility not DH's (unless either of us was widowed and no other siblings etc).

It doesn't sound like OP owes FIL any favours anyway. She already hosts him for months or even a year at a time. More than enough.

OP just tell him. 'FIL I love having you here but would you mind not touching me? I'm not very touchy'

Well there were plenty of surgeries who will arrange appointments with carers, care homes and relatives even if LPA is not in place.

There are plenty of elderly people who don’t have LPAs either because they don’t have close relatives, they or their children didn’t perceive the need, or their relatives saw the need but they didn’t agree, or they didn’t get it done in time before they lost capacity.

These kind of rigid rules, however well intended, are part of the reason dementia patients fall between the cracks.

If you read my post more carefully I didn’t speak of “discussing their condition” I specifically said that a relative can give the doctor information. The doctor can field that information but they can’t give any out. Nor am I talking about making “health decisions”.