How to politely ask FIL to NOT touch me

[Bluesky5512]

I’ve known FIL for the last 15ish years. He is 75. He has been a thorough gentleman all through. Inlaws live in the US, we visit them every year. MIL passed away a couple of years ago in a sudden accident. Ever since FIL has been visiting us more often and at times staying for 2-3 months at a time. We stuck a friendship during his recent visits. We talk about politics, astronomy (is was a professor) and yoga (my passion). I see him as a father figure and a friend. DH works in a hospital and I work from home. I take FIL out and about with me - grocery, school runs etc

He has been acting weird lately. Pinching my cheeks, Putting his hands on my shoulder, and yesterday on my waist. WTF !! I was totally taken back and he doesn’t seem to realise. He was never a “creep” IYKWIM. But this touchy behaviour is making me very uncomfortable. I don’t know how to tell him to stop without ruining our friendship.

quite possibly.

If FIL does have a potential dementia issue, surely your DH has a responsibility to clear this question up before FIL returns to the US where he may not have much support to get a diagnosis. There are about six weeks before he returns? so its urgent you would think, that DH steps up to help his DF and stop burying their heads in the sand. Would FILs travel insurance cover cost of going private as he has no GP here?

This. You also can’t be referred to a dementia specialist of any kind until you’ve had a GP assessment for dementia and various other blood tests/ECG to rule out other causes for the symptoms. The most relatives can do is to try to persuade the person to see their GP and go with them, or if that’s a no go, flag up concerns to the surgery so that the GP is aware there’s a problem and can investigate further.

Which is the logical thing to do when the person is elderly displaying documented signs of dementia, as is the case here.

No it isn’t logical to suspect one very specific diagnosis for his behaviour there are plenty of other more likely reasons. I think you need to genuinely think about why you are seeing dementia everywhere and if it’s really the most likely answer.

Why not do both ? And the OP is clearly conflicted about how to tackle the situation so hasn’t said anything even though this as been concerning her for some time. So she’s enabling his behaviour. Yes, by all means she should call him out on the behaviour, but she needs to recognise that there are red flags for dementia here, and if not the OP, then another family member should step up and help.

I’m not seeing dementia everywhere, don’t be ridiculous. I have up close and personal, ongoing experience of living and caring for someone with dementia, and I recognise the red flags - and I’m not the only one here who does. And you need to genuinely think about why you so vehemently prefer to think otherwise, when it’s a perfectly reasonable possibility given the circumstances. I really can’t be bothered arguing the same points over and over with you, so we’ll have to agree to disagree.

It’s possible. My mum has vascular dementia which causes similar disinhibition and she tends to fixate on one person for a period of time. Vascular dementia also tends to exaggerate less attractive pre-existing personality traits. The OP has described sexist behaviour on FIL’s part, so this new behaviour could be an escalation of that.

Not the way to assess dementia, given that dementia sufferers can still feel guilt and embarrassment when their behaviour is called out, despite being unable to control it. If he shows embarrassment or guilt but still carries on, what’s to stop him being labelled as just a dirty old man, and any onset of dementia missed as a result ?

All of this debate about dementia is moot to op.

Op has no control or influence over getting her FIL assessed.

She's already mentioned her concerns to DH who may or may not act on them, op thinks probably not.

It's a waste of op's time and emotional labour to ponder further whether FIL has dementia. There's nothing she can do about it either way.

Yes you can, the GP will call FIL for an appointment. You can most certainly give a GP information about a family member patient, it’s just that the GP can’t give information out.

@rosscameasdoody are you really for real advocating that op not challenge this man for fear that he be labelled as just a dom and his you-diagnosed dementia missed? Bizarre. She is seeking help for herself, not him. She needs to stop him pestering her in any way she thinks appropriate and if that includes challenging him then too bad if it makes others uncomfortable or fails to meet his speculative needs. However I think she seems to have decided on a retreat and avoid policy and leaving her dh to deal with the fil's state of mind and/or needs. Which is a good solution for her as she has no duty of care to this man and does not want to have aggro in her own home.

He can only breach your boundaries if he knows what they are.

I would also say that I am widowed and I miss hugs and physical contact. I love it when friends and family give me a hug. It may be no more than that; but if it oversteps a line for you then you have to tell him.

My OH had a neurodegenerative disease that caused his mind to lose the normal social niceties as regards sex - he said awful aggressive things to me and to his carers - it was very difficult. So some organic problem cannot be ruled out. It crept up slowly.

Blossomtoes is not correct in the first instance and equally you can ask for a private referral. Equally you can just self pay for a private specialist and skip the GP althogether.

The very basic dementia assessments by the GP are a key reason why so much dementia goes undiagnosed.

I don’t live in thrall to GPs who are the very least qualified rung of doctors.

Sorry for what you went though but I disagree.

I don’t have to tell work colleagues or people in the street not to grab me by the waist or few my bra and back. Men know what is normal contact, I don’t have to say no sexual contact to every human I meet, how bizarre having to tell him. Should she also spell it out no touching her daughter/neighbours? Weird.

Sorry to pull you up on this.

GPs are the least qualified rung of doctors?

Nope that’s junior doctors fresh out of uni.

GPs are generalists. They have to be specialists in everything, including social issues etc. But treat community stuff well and refer on when needed. Your cardiologist even subspecialises there is so much to know just about cardiology for example , but people expect their GP to know as much as their specialist.

It’s a friendly pat in the shoulder one minute, next it’s the bum, then a full on grope. Tell him straight not to touch you OP, you never know where this could lead.

I had an elderly neighbour who I’d known for many years, after his wife died he tried to kiss me on the cheek. I don’t like being touched, & I did not want this. To say I almost threw up on him was an understatement. I recoiled in horror, & wiped my face. He didn’t try it again.

Didn’t realise you meant going private - I was talking from experience of the NHS pathway with mum. We were advised at the time that the GP assessment was the gateway to referral to a specialist, along with the other tests to rule out any other causes before a referring on. Mum was dealt with quite quickly and a diagnosis of vascular dementia was given. Also not sure what you mean by this poster being incorrect in the first instance. Again, my experience was that our GP would not allow anyone else to make an appointment for mum. We had to flag up our concerns and leave it to the GP once she was made aware of the situation. We had to apply for lasting power of attorney before we were allowed access to medical records.

So what are you saying ? That you don’t believe that neurodegenerative disease can cause disinhibition, and that sufferers know what they're doing, so have control over it ? Genuine question, because that’s how your post reads to me.

On what basis are you saying the other reasons are "more likely"? How do you know what is more likely?

I dont understand what is so controversial about both enforcing boundaries (ie saying no, withdrawing, asking FIL not to touch etc) and also getting the dementia possibility checked out. I don't understand why one has to be done before the other.

Dementia is a very common disease and there are plenty of people on this thread, all saying the same thing. Based on their experiences with dementia. It's not just one person "seeing dementia everywhere", I don't know what you mean by that. Unless you're suggesting that @Rosscameasdoody is commenting on other threads telling people to get checked out for dementia. This is one example, hardly seeing it everywhere.

There is treatment available to slow the progression of dementia, and dementia is an awful, tragic disease. Which is why people are suggesting getting it checked out early.

No, I’m not. You either haven’t read my posts properly, or haven’t understood. Nowhere did I say that she shouldn’t challenge him, or that she should put up with his behaviour. What I said was that if the behaviour was as a result of the onset of dementia, challenging it wouldn’t stop it, because it’s the dementia causing the behaviour and FIL has no control over it. There are several red flags for dementia in the OPs posts and I, and several other posters who have experience of caring for someone with dementia, recognised them as such. That’s all.

You can do both - challenge the behaviour AND get the dementia possibility checked out. Why is that so hard to understand?

I totally agree with you and the other (scarce) posters who don't bother flapping around speculating as to why this is happening. Why makes no difference to the OPs discomfort.

OP I'm glad you've started taking steps although I still feel really annoyed that women have to physically dodge a man's hands.

I really hope you eventually feel able to keep your feet planted and say clearly "I don't like to be touched. Step back."

Exactly. I’ve said that several times, as have others, and it falls on deaf ears each time. Some posters have clearly disregarded the red flags for dementia, in favour of going the ‘treat him like a perv’ route. Probably the same ones who are telling those of us with actual experience of caring for someone with dementia that we’re seeing dementia everywhere. Sometimes, when you see a possible answer to a problem, it’s hard not to press the buzzer.

The why makes a significant difference. The behaviour is possibly linked to dementia, and if this is the case, simply telling him to stop won’t change anything because he has no control over the condition. So the OP will have to end the friendship and cut contact if she’s to escape his behaviour. Putting boundaries in place while investigating the possibility of dementia and securing treatment may possibly save the relationship. Doesn’t sound like it will happen though - from her updates she hasn’t got support from his family, so the discussion is pointless.