Can I just say that life as an ugly woman is horrible.

[SundayMorningTeaForOne]

I’m going to get very personal, so I’ve name changed for this one.

I hope we can be grown-up about this topic and no one’s going to hit me with the ”everyone’s beautiful in their own way” or claim that I have self-esteem issues.

Anyway, when I was younger boys really wanted to let me know how ugly they found me, so often made comments when I walked by.

When older I was loading some stuff in the car and men walked by and made those truck in reverse beeb-beeb-beeb sounds, you know letting me know I’m fat.

When out, men don’t talk to me, I’m not saying they have to be interested in me - this isin’t even what I mean, they complitely ignore me, talk to everyone else around us/ table, I’m air apperently.

I’m turning 40 next year. Never been on a date, never even been asked out on a date. So if anyone here want to argue my ugliness must be in my head, what more proof do you need.

Getting older has woken me up to the fact that I’m not going to have kids, I don’t have enough money and only family members I have I my prent and the way that they are, they are not going to support me with a child, so I can’t have a child on my own.
I don’t have enough resourses.

I can’t ger over the fact that I’ve went through life and never been loved.
No one’s ever cared about me, no one saw me as someone they’d (at least try) want to share and build a life with.
Always doing everything on my own, how tired I have become, I didn’t even notice it until I felt totally broken.
My cat died almost two years ago, she was the only one I’ve ever said good morning and good night to, now I just say to an empty room.
How sad is that?!

I honestly don’t know what keeps me here, why did I stay here for all these years. To still be alone.
Everyday I get up and go for a walk, no matter the weather, and feel like an idiot for doing that.

And in case someone wants to jump and say I must have depression, I just want to remaind that this is my life, had been always.
I’m just getting it all out. I think anyone would be very extatic if this is how their life had gone.
I had hope when I was younger / was happier, years / decades roled by and it wore me down.
That’s it.

Recommended read: "Women Don't Owe You Pretty" Florence Given.

The premise and message are no doubt valid, but this is not written from the perspective of a woman who is ugly or even plain. It's easy to say you shouldn't feel obliged to be 'pretty' when you have prettiness at your fingertips. Not so easy when you would give anything to be merely plain, let alone pretty ...

Yes. This was equally true of Naomi Wolf's The Beauty Myth back in the 90s (before she turned into an insane anti-vax loon).

Gym, hair treatments, new clothes, dental treatments, make up...all hard for someone with limited funds. Not saying any of them are bad ideas as such, just not perhaps as easy as some posters might think. Especially those speaking from a position where some of these are already in place and come as naturally as breathing.

Add onto that zero self-confidence, massive self-consciousness and zero idea where to start and it might be possible to get an idea of how op might be feeling reading some of these responses. (What brand of make up? What shade? Which brush? Where do I contour, how? Which day cream / night cream /serum? Can I afford to experiment to find the one that suits?) Imagine being 11 or 12 again and just starting to learn about that kind of stuff- but being expected to know it all and do it all perfectly, immediately, as you're a grown adult. And being super aware of that fact and very conscious that you don't know any of that and can't afford (financially or for the sake of what little self esteem you have) to not get it right straight off. And to know that if you do try, you will get comments about what you have tried, which will make you more self-conscious even if they are positive comments. (And someone having gone thru life like this is going to find it hard to accept compliments as being genuine even if they are.)

This is someone's actual life, not a movie where you suddenly get a make over and turn your life around just like that. It takes an idea of where to start and what suits you, funds and not least energy, motivation and courage. If depressed, and sounds as if op has every reason to be, then it really isn't as easy as all that.

And I guess that's really what op is getting at. Unless you too are "ugly" then it all seems so easy to make those changes, with no idea of all the emotional barriers to be overcome after a lifetime of being told you are ugly and overlooked time and time again.

Of course all those changes can be made, one thing at a time perhaps, but it sounds to me as if op is after acknowledgement that things can be shitty rather than a list of "easy" fixes.

@SundayMorningTeaForOne Do you read ?

You might find the novel Eleanor Oliphant inspiring.

It's about a woman of your age, almost the same circumstances, who turned her life around and found love (quite by accident.) I think you could empathise with the person in that book.

Oops I think I may have got it mixed up with another book on the same subject that isn't so seemingly fluffy. It had a similar title, but can't quite remember what it was

@Lancrelady80, some extremely good points made.

The hairdresser was suggesting that I am too ugly to have a man. I have had this several times in my life. An ex colleague once said to me the same.
I have had many insults in my life, mainly from family but also hairdressers and even strangers.
I do think that women in relationships have it easy in the way that they are not judged for working less or not at all or if they just have a quiet life. I know a woman who is a teaching assistant so works very part time hours but lives with her high earning husband. I know another woman who doesn't work at all, again, because her husband is a big earner. Yet OP gets asked why she works part time in a way that these other women would not.

Florence Given is a bit of the pain in the ass.

She's very young and full of herself and I don't think she's got much that's particularly original to say. Didn't she come to prominence through Instagram? She's also TWAW and 'queerness' and 'vagina havers' to the eyeballs. Well, whoever she is and has going for her, I doubt she'd be much use to the OP!

We know OP is single because she told us. That's why people wonder how she can afford it. Not because she self reports as ugly, but because she self reports as single. There's no higher earning partner.

I realise that. My point is that if a married woman or a woman in a long term relationship came on here saying they worked part time nobody would really question it or judge. Yet with OP and other single people they would.
I know somebody who has chronic conditions also and only works minimal hours because the only thing she can find at the moment is a role which takes an hour to get to, then a 10 hour shift with an unpaid lunch hour. She physically couldn't do that 5 days a week. She feels guilt for not doing more and is also single but I know she also gets judged. Yet if she were married or with someone then I don't think she would.
If OP is unhappy about her work hours then by all means, try and change it. But I did sense some judgement there which as I said, I don't think a coupled up person would get.

nobody would really question it or judge. Yet with OP and other single people they would.Nobody's judging. They're questioning it because it's unusual to be entirely self-sufficient on a part time salary. Some people on the thread suggested that if she can earn that much working part time, then her looks can't be holding back her earning power. I'm not saying I agree, but that's the reasoning.

But nobody would be asking a married woman or a coupled up woman.
Maybe OP tops up with UC or maybe this is a stop gap role. Maybe she has an inheritance etc.
I agree if she is able to earn enough like this then there is a valid point about looks not being an issue but could be other reasons which are none of our business.

But nobody would be asking a married woman or a coupled up woman.

No, because it's obvious that she probably has a second income in her household.

Of course if you're living with a partner it's obvious why you might not need to work part time. If you're not then yes, you might have other incomes, but your situation is less guessable.

You're seeing prejudice where there isn't any. It's not a judgement, it's purely practical.

In a thread about the ways in which our looks affect our opportunities, it's a fair question.

Well …this is quite thought provoking isn’t it. My daughter (who is always beautiful to me) went through a tricky teenage phase from
aboit 14 to 20. She stacked on weight, her skin broke out in the most terrible acne, she dresses really badly, and put on heaps of makeup really badly. She seemed to have few friends, got cut out of groups and was the recipient of uninvited comments and her confidence was on the floor.. She says she has never been so miserable.

Roll the clock forward a few years, she has become an expert in makeup, her acne has gone and she has lost weight and she has found her dress sense. Is she treated differently… hell yes. She has so many friends I never know where she is, a nice boyfriend, she is tipped for promotion and her confidence is in a much better place.

However, she is now bulimic. Apparently this is what she has to do to be socially acceptable.

nobody would really question it or judge. Yet with OP and other single people they would

One reason for questioning her job was that in her posts she said she couldn't afford to have a child, as single parent.

And she didn't sound very happy with her work, saying it was quite lonely- part time hours, very very small company, she hardly saw anyone as they all worked at different times or from home.

For lots of people, work can (note 'can', not 'does') lead into a social life and friendships. So I for one, suggested this was something she might re-think.

For the posters saying it was judgemental you're barking up the wrong tree.

Eleanor Oliphant was a good read, but I don't know how it will help @SundayMorningTeaForOne

Eleanor was traumatised by her mother's emotional abuse and carried her mother's inner voice in her internal dialogue. Also, her coping mechanism was alcohol. I'd say Eleanor's social needs were very low as I think working in a small office part time would have overwhelmed Eleanor socially.

It's kinda weird and rude to suggest to OP that she could gain some insight or comfort from the book. I enjoyed it, but being single isn't complex PTSD or an over reliance on alcohol.

Eleanor Oliphant also underwent a makeover as the book progressed and was fundamentally not an unattractive woman - she was dressed frumpily and had scarring, she wasn't inherently bad looking.

The makeover element of the book spoiled it for me - I'd have preferred to see her finding happiness without having to change her appearance.

@xPeaceXx I hope you understand that your retort to my suggestion is simply your opinion. You aren't the world's top literary critic.

It's an uplifting book about someone who had various issues and who turned her life around and found happiness.

The OP's posts are not just about being single.

FGS let's not start an argument over a post suggesting she might enjoy a book which has some elements of commonality with her own life.

@SouthernLassies I agree re work. A different job, or even a volunteer role for some of the OPs spare time could be a great help in mixing with people, especially if she doesn’t need more money. Volunteering can really help with self esteem. If someone defines themselves as ugly, we have to accept their judgement as they are unseen, but it is subjective.

I believe too that earning more could help improve options, such as affording good hair care, dental work, nice clothes, exercise classes etc.

Only read Ops posts, so don’t know what other have suggested, but I’m terms of having more contact with other people, have you ever considered living / working somewhere like the Camphill community?

@SouthernLassies I hope you understand that being advised that your life is comparable to a character (struggling with cptsd, alcoholism and obsession with a musician she does not know) is not relatable or flattering to a woman who is just... single and knows that she has social needs that aren't being met. I suspect it may be a while since you read the book. Perhaps you have forgotten the details and just remembered that you enjoyed the book and were happy for the character. I enjoyed the book too.

Reading can be uplifting that much is true.

That make up is absolutely hideous. She doesn't look human in the 'after' picture.

She's under no obligation to keep replying. She's already replied once. I'm not sure why you are reading into it so much.

Barbara go rub salt in someone else's wound,, leave this lady alone