Can I just say that life as an ugly woman is horrible.

[SundayMorningTeaForOne]

I’m going to get very personal, so I’ve name changed for this one.

I hope we can be grown-up about this topic and no one’s going to hit me with the ”everyone’s beautiful in their own way” or claim that I have self-esteem issues.

Anyway, when I was younger boys really wanted to let me know how ugly they found me, so often made comments when I walked by.

When older I was loading some stuff in the car and men walked by and made those truck in reverse beeb-beeb-beeb sounds, you know letting me know I’m fat.

When out, men don’t talk to me, I’m not saying they have to be interested in me - this isin’t even what I mean, they complitely ignore me, talk to everyone else around us/ table, I’m air apperently.

I’m turning 40 next year. Never been on a date, never even been asked out on a date. So if anyone here want to argue my ugliness must be in my head, what more proof do you need.

Getting older has woken me up to the fact that I’m not going to have kids, I don’t have enough money and only family members I have I my prent and the way that they are, they are not going to support me with a child, so I can’t have a child on my own.
I don’t have enough resourses.

I can’t ger over the fact that I’ve went through life and never been loved.
No one’s ever cared about me, no one saw me as someone they’d (at least try) want to share and build a life with.
Always doing everything on my own, how tired I have become, I didn’t even notice it until I felt totally broken.
My cat died almost two years ago, she was the only one I’ve ever said good morning and good night to, now I just say to an empty room.
How sad is that?!

I honestly don’t know what keeps me here, why did I stay here for all these years. To still be alone.
Everyday I get up and go for a walk, no matter the weather, and feel like an idiot for doing that.

And in case someone wants to jump and say I must have depression, I just want to remaind that this is my life, had been always.
I’m just getting it all out. I think anyone would be very extatic if this is how their life had gone.
I had hope when I was younger / was happier, years / decades roled by and it wore me down.
That’s it.

I am sure beautiful people have their challenges. But I would put my money on there being more beautiful people married with kids and happy than ugly folk.

Same argument with weight. I am very thin and have had lots of hurtful comments about that over my life which affected my confidence when younger. But I don’t in a million years think it’s the same challenge as someone who is very overweight. Society prefers beautiful and thin.

So whilst being stunning can make life hard for some people, and vile men are at fault, let’s not kid ourselves that it’s exactly the same as a girl/woman who has been ugly since childhood and has to navigate school, adulthood and society whilst being unattractive.

Oh OP

I hear you. I was not designed to be a looker either, I have terrible skin and was born to be fat, made worse by a body that won't work properly so that I can't tone or exercise, and it stomps holes in your self esteem, it really does. I have the really bad days of snarling at the mirror but some things have helped and the bad days aren't frequent.

First, talk to the Style and Beauty women here on MN. They have a wealth of great ideas and are very supportive, I've had some great skin advice in particular. There's a good thread quite recently about women not conventionally pretty who are very good at knowing what suits them and works for them with what they've got - Judi Dench for example. Style and immaculacy but not pretty. Many of the top serious actresses aren't pretty; they have faces that express and can do a wide range as opposed to do pretty.

I found it incredibly useful to get my colours done with a good House of Colour consultant, and go for 1 on 1. If your confidence is low, some time spent with a woman good at this is a huge boost. They will look in the mirror with you and work out with you what are you best features, what are your best colours for the best effect, they can also talk with you about a range of clothing styles that best suit your particular body shape and face shape/personal style. None of it will involve what it could all be like in another life if you were thinner; it's about what your style is right now, today. They'll also talk the best makeup and skin products for you if you ask them. I can't ever be pretty; I can be smart and well dressed. (Learning not to be permanently scruffy I'm still working on.)

Feeling better about myself and making decisions on how I wanted to present myself instead of feeling 'happened to' has done a lot to pick up my self esteem and feel more comfortable in my skin.

On the other hand, when you are regarded as an attractive person, you have to deal with becoming less attractive which is also difficult.

Hi @SundayMorningTeaForOne I understand what you’re saying in your post but I’m thinking you’re basing being lonely/alone on your looks and then linking that to whether you’re happy or not.

Regardless of how you look, how you can be happy is the key question…..whether that’s with someone else or whether it’s on your own……both can happen.

There are people who live completely on their own in the middle of nowhere and are completely happy and then there are those who have lots of friends and busy lives and who feel extremely alone.

I think the first thing is to reassess your work/life situation and if you think you could change that and be happier, then try working out how to get there. Have a goal - and I don’t think it needs to be expensive. Make it fit into your budget.

For example, you might really love working in the tourism industry and you might really love wildlife and walking. Why not use those things and move abroad/or somewhere else away from where you live now - to start a new life adventure and to do a job involving all of those things and in a place you love being. Or you might see a property for sale that’s cheap enough to buy but where you could have a cat rescue or cat holiday home. Something that makes you happy before any of the looks thing comes into play.
Have a goal /goals and reach for them….no matter how big or small.

Regardless of your looks, arriving at a ‘place’ where you enjoy being yourself and a place in your head where you feel you’re enough and not lonely, I think is key to being happy.

The looks and confidence can all be worked on if that’s what you want - make up, new clothes styles, confidence classes etc - but none of those will work if you first don’t find where you can be happy - whether that’s an actual physical place or inside your head.

Doing things that make you happier will also at the same time make you feel more confident. And from there, who knows who’ll you’ll meet…..even if that’s new friendships, plutonic or otherwise.

I'm sorry for your experiences.

However I am not sending off any secret signals. I don't believe that is true and I see that as a form of victim blaming. I'm glad this explanation has helped you but I think it's a load of absolute bollocks.

The men who have abused me have done so because I'm beautiful and they have wanted to have me as their possession, and when I have said no, they have resorted to violence to try and get what they want. I didn't do anything to cause this other than just be born a woman with a pretty face.

Patriarchy is the problem - not me and any secret signals I might be sending out.

Also OP are you assuming men don't make horrid comments to other women.

Very beautiful women get hit on, decline a man's advances and are called stuck up bitches.

Women like you who describe themselves as ugly get rude remarks.

Middle of the range women also get unwanted comments, they really do, but they may not mention them to you if they just brush it off as arseholery.

OP I am not sure what you want from this thread. But if you are turning 40, are a virgin, never felt loved, and are grieving the lack of kids, then your feelings are completely valid. It sounds really tough.

You may never make your peace completely with all that but I hope with time, you can find other stuff that is rewarding and brings you some happiness and pleasure. X

I think it’s wonderful that you go out for a walk every day,
no matter the weather. Lots of people use a bit of rain or wind as an excuse, so the fact you don’t is great.

I really think you should try to join social groups as a way of making friends. Mr Right isn’t just going to knock on your door one day randomly. Go out and find people. I’m an introvert so I know it’s hard but working somewhere where it’s just you most of the time isn’t going to help you meet new people.
My suggestions would be Parkrun (or Junior Parkrun) if you have one near you - you can volunteer to scan barcodes, or tail walk or just be a marshal.
Or a local community group - we have one that puts on events for the local neighbourhood, like summer fetes, fundraising, jubilees etc.
Or Scouts/Guides are always desperate for helpers
Or beginner running groups
Or local walking groups
Or reading volunteers in the local primary school.

Personally I think a local walking group would be a good start, you can chat to people while getting some gentle exercise. As you make friends you might get invited to other social groups and your circle will grow.

Only you can make changes to your life. If you keep doing the same, you can’t expect your life to be any different this time next year.

Perfectly put. 💐

Some of the hobbies you mention could be turned into social activities, eg volunteering in community gardening or National Trust type places.

I have just come in from talking with a woman I know, who is very far indeed from conventionally attractive in her face, etc. But really she is a joy to be around - a wonderful genuine full smile, a relaxed and totally accepting of others vibe, and she does a lot for her community and enjoys it. She is a delight to be around, and I always feel uplifted as I do now, from having seen her. She IS very attractive because of her personality and involvement in life. You don't really notice anything else.

I hear your pain OP, and really hope that you get to know all you have to offer life. It really is not all about looks, and as other posters have pointed out, the problems with men do not go away, however one looks. Enjoy life, be interested in other people, and this will come across as attractive. Have you thought of joining a local church, assuming it is a good one, and not anti-woman? Church can be a wonderful way to meet nice people with decent values, who will like you for you are not what you look like.

OP possibly all been said already but here are some ideas to alleviate the loneliness :

Volunteer for charity work, maybe something supporting kids/teens. Or an old folks home: we get a good feeling from giving.

Volunteer at an animal shelter.

Join Meet Up, go hiking.

This is a bit of a mad one, and obviously just a casual suggestion. Join a hook up site, if you want to experience sex. If you just want to know what it feels like, then maybe a no strings attached hook up would be an experience if nothing else.

I would consider myself fairly attractive, but since being injured by psychotropic meds and now having a permanent neurological involuntary movement disorder called tardive dyskinesia as a result (which is like Parkinson's disease and Tourette's combined), it makes me feel unattractive and ugly when I'm having odd and bizarre involuntary movements of my mouth, tongue and face. But it doesn't stop me from living with it, being busy, getting on with life or trying my best to carry on. If I'm totally honest, it makes me feel extremely unattractive and ugly but my DH is ok with it (although I had a couple of remarks from my mum when it first started, and she would say things like "NooNooHead is pulling a weird face"... 🙄😫🥺😳)

Oh OP, please don't let this be the thing that defines you. You are worthy, and deserve to go out, live life and be happy. Hold your head up high and keep going. Sending hugs 💖💖💖

@SundayMorningTeaForOne Do you have friends? You say you don't see much of colleagues.

I think this is true. I had to navigate ugly as a teenager. I then grew into myself, lost some weight, had fewer spots and have been average as an adult woman.

Average I completely think is the best place to be though on this.

I don’t know why, but when I read about you and your lovely cat op it reminds me so much of the (absolutely brilliant) book The Midnight Library.

Don't think you get where OP is coming from.

She is struggling because she has never had any romantic interest or involvement with anyone and it's clearly affected her self-esteem badly. She may just have been unlucky, she may just be extremely shy, but it's very different from just being a 'middle of the road' person who has some interest, may have had relationships but still gets snarky comments from men because they are less than stunning. That's not going to create a relentlessly negative thought cycle in the same way, is it.

@SundayMorningTeaForOne You sound unappreciated to me, it’s not so much about the way life has gone maybe but the fact that you feel your life is unshared? You can take steps to remedy that but it means putting yourself out there and offering yourself first - that’s generally the way as an adult I think.

the fact you play piano jumped out at me as a great starting point. See if any local choirs or drama groups need a piano player and offer up your services. Music lifts spirits at the best of times and to be able to make a communal activity would be great for you I think. Maybe look at piano teaching too. Every teacher (private and school) who influenced my love of music holds a very special place in my heart and my memories of them are incredibly fond ones. I stayed in touch with one gentleman until he passed a few years ago.

build yourself into a community, just offers to help/volunteering is often a path in. I’m not religious in the slightest but I do really think that the loss of the church (in the UK at least) as the focal heart of the community has made building networks a lot harder these days but you can replicate that taking part in other schemes and events.

Deeper friendships/relationships tend to develop from actively taking part in a wider community so, at least theoretically, you should be able to make changes that will benefit you even if they don’t address the major points you’re focussed on.

I do believe it's true.

Because, since EMDR gave me a degree of insight I never before believed possible, since the underlying issues of the abuse were addressed, the public harrassment has stopped. Excepting, perhaps unsurprisingly, in London, the city whose famed anonymity is a physical impossibility because entitled men still constantly make a beeline. suspect this has more to do with women who walk around the place alone: the temerity.

We are not aware of when we're sending the signals, that's the point. It's wholly unconscious - it's not as if you've voluntarily stuck a KICK ME sticker on your back. I am not a natural bully or harrassment victim. I stand at nearly 6 feet tall: I have a confident, upright walk. I'm a skilled communicator. I take no shit. But it doesn't matter how confident an aura someone projects. A practiced abuser can sense it.

I can't explain the reasons for this, but I'm at a loss to see how acknowleging this point is 'victim-blaming'. The idea that women are in any way responsible for our own abuse is anathema to me: it's an assumption I seem to have spent my entire adult life challenging. Abuse is the fault of the abuser, not the victim - and they are the devious bastards that spend their time selecting their targets and working their DARVO, negging, lovebombing, boiling frog and other recognisable tactics on them. As a one-time victim, my body and mind were simply doing what they had to do to survive. Had men not foisted themselves into my space in the first place, it would never have happened.

On two points we agree. Hearing the word 'no' makes some men rage, to the extent that they lose their grip on reason. Firstly, they will hear that word and interpret it as anything but what it actually means. They persist. They simply will not get lost. Then, (often after escalating levels of harrassment), it occurs to them that the women in their sights does actually mean exactly what she says.

That's the point at which they turn. And get really, REALLY nasty.

The second point on which we agree is that this is ALL the fault of the patriarchy and the idea that women are simply vessels for the service and satisaction of males.

We are not.

You're only 39 so much of your life is left to enjoy. If you're not happy you need to change something you're doing or nothing will change. If you're lonely getting a dog would be great (I'm not a cat person, dogs give so much more love and affection imo).

Find some sort of exercise class you enjoy and go regularly, you'll get an endorphin hit, possibly lose weight, make friends and be busier

What about slimming world, it's great motivation to lose weight and feel good about yourself

If your appearance is getting you down, invest in some new make-up/clothes this will do wonders for your confidence

Have you thought about online dating? From the description of your lifestyle you aren't getting much opportunity to met men so of course less likely to date. Join tinder so many people looking to date and not everyone is a model of expects a model

What about friendships? Having a partner isn't everything, having close friends is so important to mental health, reach out to friends and make time, bake them a cake and invite over for coffee etc

Yes your mental health sounds poor at the moment, I'd look at counselling to work through things you are feel too

This made me really sad. Im sorry you feel this way. I'm not going to invalidate your feelings, you feel this way and you're entitled to. I'm just sad for you and wish I could give you a huge hug

My bestie is married to an ugly man. His teeth are terrible. I was shocked the first few times I met him and wondered how on earth she could get it on with him.

Shame on me. He is the loveliest kindest most polite man I have ever met. Time in his company is a privilege and a pleasure. This post has made me realise I am no longer struck by his facial features, in fact I haven't noticed them for many years. I just see a lovely lovely man.

@SundayMorningTeaForOne I'm so sorry you are dealing with all of this lovely. Those men are misogynistic bullies and I know it's difficult but they treat so many other women like this aswell. It doesn't make it right but we need to start calling it out. I actually came to see just how shallow and fleeting male attention actually is
I was quite pretty as a teenager and probably into my 30's, I'm now 42 and due to hidden disabilities and a lot of other stuff I'm dealing with in my life, I have become all but invisible (I couldn't care less about that and anyway I'm a lesbian!) But it just showed me how shallow and conditional this attention actually is.

I would second like so many others said to definitely consider getting another cat or even a dog as so many people get to know others through dog walking.

Please be kind to yourself and do something nice for yourself today. You deserve it

Humans are shallow. I am sorry OP. You got dealt a hard hand. If any consolation, those who had looks will also lose them. If you want to be looked at with absolute love and devotion, like you are the best thing since sliced bread, every day of your life by a soul who couldn't care less what you look like on the outside, please consider offering a home to a rescue dog. They will love you unconditionally for who you are on the inside.

I'm fat and so "unphotogenic". I am married and spend as much time as possible naked. I accept myself and my husband, who is above my league, always tells me I'm beautiful. I have always been the ugly friend and yet always gotten attention. I am a firm believer that sass and confidence is far sexier than physical beauty. Ime, men are easy, most don't care about looks if they are getting some. A relationship goes nowhere from just a physical attraction though and if you meet someone who you get along with, flirt, believe you deserve it and give it a shot. Even if it's short lived, enjoy it while it lasts! Ugly or not, EVERYONE is entitled to love and be loved!