To not want this child in my home?

[AlastorMoodysMadEye]

I feel like I should caveat this with me not actually holding this child responsible. She’s 4 so her behaviour isn’t necessarily something she can self regulate but it’s awful behaviour that her parents also seem to be unable/unwilling to address.

But I’ve had it. Every time she’s here things get broken - from cups to walls and furniture - because she repeatedly plays with or climbs on things she’s asked not to. You ask her not to eat anywhere but the table and she’ll grab her food and run off to the bathroom/bedroom/couch and smear whatever she has wherever she is. You ask her to leave things alone and she won’t until you wrestle them off her and then she will throw a massive tantrum, which can be ear-splitting and often involves her kicking out and more things being damaged or people being hurt.

Obviously the answer is don’t have her back until she behaves but if I set a rule like that it’ll cause the most almighty family row, with generations getting involved, and I’m not sure, knowing that it would be coming, whether I’m actually being unreasonable as how do we expect 4yo children to behave? And I’ll be told stuff is less important than faaaaaaamily.

So AIBU to actually put my home and belongings (and shins) ahead of family unity? Or do I have to suck it up and have my house trashed whenever she comes.

Well if the child has complex behavioural difficulties (whether diagnosed or not), then perhaps the parents shouldn't take her to places where she is totally overstimulated, unable to control herself and ends up having a meltdown. The only way to manage it when round someone else's house is if the parents can physically prevent her from running riot and damaging things. She's small enough for that to be an option.

Or she might just be a feral brat, like I said before.

Head off further visits until she is older, and hopefully better behaved, by suggesting a meet-up halfway somewhere. Even if you have to spend a night in a Travel Lodge in order to spend the next day with her and her parents, it would be better than having her at yours. I would be really firm about her not coming to yours. DH is on your side - that's good. Capitalise on it. You are not BU to put boundaries in place.

Excellent advise.

I had a kid who I wouldn't take to people's houses as it could be very much like this. Hard work. Not fun. Didn't do it more than once. Autistic.

Parents need to take responsibility.

She sounds like a spoilt brat. Where are her manners? Your house, your rules!

If she wants to climb on things she can do that in a park.

Her parents must have let her do as she pleases, but this behaviour is unacceptable and would not be tolerated anywhere else (inc school).

She needs to get used to the 'real world'. The one where we have to have respect for others property and think of others as well as ourselves.

The only exception for this being difficult to follow is if she has an SEN need, but even so she can be taught manners and respect and can adhere to this.

Sounds like she hasn't been taught this yet.

I think the real problem here is the parents. Soon enough they will find that no one wants to look after their child.

Your things cost money. YANBU.
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This. My kids would be for the high jump if they behaved like this in someone else's home (or in my own).

I had somewhat similar from a family member at a similar age. I used to get palpitations when they arrived.

My solution was to get them to play in the garden as much as possible, bubbles, skipping rope, mud kitchen, potion making with plastic bottles and food dye. Chalking on patio. Anything to keep them in the garden.

Then I put slide bolts across the tops of internal doors to keep them out of certain rooms (all the upstairs rooms and any non essential downstairs rooms). This cut down on most of the chaos, although they were very upset they didn't have the run of the house.

We didn't have a piano but could you strap the lid down so the keys are inaccessible? Luggage straps might work.

Sounds hard work. I remember those days well.

I wonder what her parents think of this behaviour. Are they concerned in any way? Do they think it's normal?

I'm saying this from a personsl perspective of having rsised 2 kids with ADHD (one with ASD), I would never have allowed them to cause such an unpleasant atmosphere in anyone's home.

I used to have a child like that round my house occasionally (I adored the mum and she needed help).

At age 8 the child was diagnosed with autism and adhd… So while your guest might be a brat, she also might have special needs thst haven’t been diagnosed yet.

Either way, feel free to stop hosting them. I did 😬

I have a 4 year old and we visit family often. Honestly he would never behave like this and nor would my 3 year old. So I don’t think you are being unreasonable

I have a nephew by marriage who is quite challenging - for a good reason and not a flaw in his character or the parenting he's had, but it's still challenging. We basically lock all the doors in the house and remove everything we can from the living room and he only comes for brief visits (which I find stressful but at least they don't last long).

I appreciate short visits are not really so easy when you don't live near to each other, but some children just can't handle being house guests, whether that is something her parents could change or not.

If there's not an underlying issue, she will probably grow out of being such a menace, but I don't see anything wrong in refusing to host them in the meantime.

This doesn't sound like the normal behaviour of a four year old and her parents sound like they have their heads buried in the sand. I don't envy you op it's an awkward position to be put in but I'd really have to speak up and be honest with them

Problem is that if she fucks up a piano that’s going to be expensive. They won’t understand and won’t pay.

I didn't take my son with autism to anyone's house after the age of about two - unless they also had a disabled child. Not the ideal of inclusion so much talked about but the only practical way. It's not easy, I had a friend visit me recently with a learning disabled child aged around 7 and it really took me back to just how incredibly tough it is - again not what our society wants to hear. But they certainly should not expect people to cope without prior warning !

Regardless. The parents shouldn't be allowing the child to.run riot in someone else's home
My son has severe autism and learning disabilities he has very challenging behaviour we don't allow him to.do.what he wants in other people homes in fact I don't take him to.other peoples times other than my parents .

Homes*

Haven't RTFT. You can and should avoid having her in your house for now. The only question is how to frame that.

You could either make excuses and always meet elsewhere, or else explain that because she is so young and lively and unfortunately your house isn't child-friendly, you worry for her safety. Let everyone think you are overprotective and don't understand children; that's better than being thought unwelcoming and uptight about your stuff.

If her parents try to say that's it's okay, they are sure she won't come to any harm, just wring your hands and go on and on and on about how you could never live with yourself if anything terrible happened to her while she was visiting, so really it isn't possible for her to come until she's older, how awful you feel about it because it would be so wonderful to have her visit, etc etc.

Etiquette demands that you refrain from being too precious about your things. But it allows you to show concern for other people's welfare. So that is how I would play it.

I really wouldn’t tie yourself up in knots about this, thinking of solutions to something that frankly isn’t your problem. Just say no. Your husband is sick of it too, so you know you have his support. Stop worrying about what your in-laws are going to think of you, just let them get on with it. They’re not stressing themselves out worrying about what you think of them as they’re allowing their kid to wreck your stuff.

It sounds like there is more going on here than 'bad behaviour' but it is the parents job to manage this or not take him to places where it is going to be a big problem. Ds never goes to other people's houses or busy environments.

She sounds a lot like my nephew who is now 6.

it has come to the point it’s causing some issues in the family as my husband doesn’t want to stay in the same house as them when we go on holiday. We live in different countries so this makes it hard for us to be together and for the children to be close.

but I can relate completely, absolute chaos when he comes. We have a rule of no food in living room and they walk all over with food, things go missing as they (nephews little brother is copying his behaviour) chuck things into the bushes etc… screaming and running around. It’s really hard work. He doesn’t listen at all, at a birthday party he stuck his fingers in the birthday cake and my sister didn’t even say anything to him. Then they have had enough and threaten him they won’t go to toy shop when they know they are going to go to the toy shop no matter what. No consequences to their actions, and then we look bad for not wanting to spend holidays like this.

Thank you for the responses on here. Lots to think about and lots of sensible practical advice and some new perspectives.

We do have toys for her to play with but she ignores them and wants to play with <insert random object here> instead. Who knew CD cases could be so exciting. We generally say at that point “X isn’t a toy so please don’t play with it, let’s put it away and play with Y” but of course she won’t help put away or listen. On the piano front I don’t mind her playing with it but I have very simple rules - she asks first and washes her hands - which she ignores. Like PP we end up having things lost because they’re thrown around the garden or hidden/posted behind things and it’s infuriating.

On the bolting when she’s out thing, I get far more embarrassed about it than her parents who seem to think it’s fine so I end up retrieving her and apologising. I don’t want other people who have nothing to do with her to be disrupted or hurt by hot things being dropped.

Also I’m not super house proud but this is an adult household so is fairly tidy and I like to live a place for everything and everything in its place mentality. Her family home is not like that, they’re incredibly messy and her bedroom looks like a bomb site, but I think that’s down to different people living different ways.

I do appreciate the not-my-circus-not-my-monkeys theme that has run through here and will be applying that from now on. But we won’t host them here until she can behave appropriately - whether that’s because she’s older and has learned, is diagnosed with some form of SEN (which wouldn’t entirely surprise me), or her parents set her boundaries and encourage her to respect my minimal ones.

This behaviour sounds similar to that of my autistic child at 4. However, while we couldn't control the way he behaved, we would have controlled the situation by either not taking him to your house or removing him physically if he was destroying/smearing food. It is exhausting having a child like this.
Having had 3 children and seen many over the years, I don't think this is usual behaviour, including behaviour caused by poor parenting. However, you don't have to put up with it in your home.

That works I. Their own home but parents can't expect other people's homes to have this set up. Even at 4y the child is old enough to know where and when climbing and being boisterous is appropriate and non appropriate.
They won't be allowed to behave like this in school so will need to know these rules very soon anyway.

They may have. However, the behaviour remains inappropriate and the parents need to deal with it. It isn't appropriate to allow your child to damage other people's property on a regular basis.

I've known many children with various send. They aren't always able to self regulate therefore need a parent watching them to ensure they don't hurt themselves or other people, or damage things.

lots of people arguing that it's not relevant that child may have SEN (clearly sounds like behaviour not standard for age) - of course the OP does not have to suffer damage to her home or personal stress

BUT - many many comments on here are judgemental of the child talking about bheaviour. People should not pass comment in these situations.

And if the OP is friends with the parent she needs to first ask what struggles they are going through if they are not coping with the child's behaviour. It takes a village etc.