To not want this child in my home?

[AlastorMoodysMadEye]

I feel like I should caveat this with me not actually holding this child responsible. She’s 4 so her behaviour isn’t necessarily something she can self regulate but it’s awful behaviour that her parents also seem to be unable/unwilling to address.

But I’ve had it. Every time she’s here things get broken - from cups to walls and furniture - because she repeatedly plays with or climbs on things she’s asked not to. You ask her not to eat anywhere but the table and she’ll grab her food and run off to the bathroom/bedroom/couch and smear whatever she has wherever she is. You ask her to leave things alone and she won’t until you wrestle them off her and then she will throw a massive tantrum, which can be ear-splitting and often involves her kicking out and more things being damaged or people being hurt.

Obviously the answer is don’t have her back until she behaves but if I set a rule like that it’ll cause the most almighty family row, with generations getting involved, and I’m not sure, knowing that it would be coming, whether I’m actually being unreasonable as how do we expect 4yo children to behave? And I’ll be told stuff is less important than faaaaaaamily.

So AIBU to actually put my home and belongings (and shins) ahead of family unity? Or do I have to suck it up and have my house trashed whenever she comes.

I used to share this view but my polite requests that they only eat at the table/pleas when the polite requests are ignored have been met with “Oh he just can’t keep still”. I even said, “Yes but my carpet will get ruined.” If it was food I’d provided, like fruit during dessert, I’d have said “I assume you don’t want this anymore” and put it away but tricky when their mum has given it to them. This is why we now make plans anywhere but our house with these guests.

@AJTommo do you hang them on the hooks 😀

I agree @Jo190 - I ask that food be eaten at the table and get the tantrums from this girl. In the past I have wrestled food off her when she's taken it to the couch but appreciate that's probably a bit too extreme a response. I was properly cross when DMIL took jam on toast to her IN MY BED!

Other children in our home have always seemed ok to comply with the rule of food at the table, which I don't think too draconian, but this little girl seemingly can't and then can be massively enabled by caregivers.

Sounds like this child has an undiagnosed condition like ADHD (I speak from experience). Kids who are neurodivergent can often behave very unusually when not in a familiar environment and when their routine is disrupted. The smearing you mentioned is something I’ve seen in children who have this profile and the tantrums you describe can be because the child cannot self-regulate. Time to get her to a paediatrician asap.

Does she attend any nursery or pre school setting ? That might be a way to tactfully dig deeper ? It seems unlikely this atypical development hasn't been picked up elsewhere.

No, she sounds like a spoilt brat with absolutely no boundaries and parents who are either too useless/ lazy to instil any.

Doesnt matter what the rest of the family think, in your shoes OP, there’s absolutely no way I would have her in my house. A 4 year old should not be behaving like this (I have kids myself).

I was properly cross when DMIL took jam on toast to her IN MY BED!

Jesus OP that's absolutely ridiculous!! Seems like MIL needs an assessment more than the child

I don't have that in my home and as a parent I wouldn't allow it, in someone else's. It a lack of respect and value for someone's home.

There's a place to climb and its not in someone elses house, as a parent i would distract them to something more appropriate. Table manners are important, they shouldn't be running around eating and at 4 they are old enough to have listening ears and follow instructions.

Could you have something on hand for distraction such as colouring pencils, books etc?

As an ND adult, I’m unconvinced that the child has ASD traits from what you’ve written so far. I think she simply lacks boundaries.

Whenever my DC. had friends over, I’ve always been very firm that ‘these are the rules in this house’ regarding touching other people’s things and especially eating at the dining table and nowhere else.

Now I have GDC, that hasn’t changed and thankfully, their parents believe in setting boundaries and expectations too.

I think it’s pretty pathetic when parents are too lazy to parent their own child and expect others to do it for them, relying on staff at nursery and school.

My severely autistic child was and still.is very destructive he also.used to climb over furniture obviously I didn't allow him.free reign and watched him.like a hawk etc but nobody on here here can say whether the child has autism and or other possible ND,sor not based on their own experiences or whether its crsp.parenting or a mixture of both
I.do.agree though parents should parent their own child and not expect others to do so.

Unfortunately all these behaviours if are happening at home too sound like a child that's on the spectrum maybe do some research and then make a doctor's appointment to discuss getting her looked at xxx

Tbh .y 4 nearly 5 yr old is like this ,she is strongly suspecred to have AHAD,her behaviour jeeps us from visiting ppl as we k ow she can be difficult ,noone will feelworse than the parents ,just bear that in mind before you decide . Obviously its your home and you have the right to expect your things to be taken care of ,just try to be a little empathetic whatever road you go down . Good luck.

I would never have them over again. Completely unacceptable. What a total brat and what appaling parents. Parents need to instill in their children good manners and respect for their own and others homes, belongings etc. Absolutely no excuse and I would not, under any circumstances, be wooly and understanding, accepting or forgiving over this. If her parents won't tell her how to behave, yhen you need to.

Sounds like my child.. Recently diagnosed with ADHD.

I have some sympathy for the parents as know how it feels to become desensitised to the chaos and to be exhausted and feel utterly defeated by these behaviours- especially the complete lack of regard for consequences and infuriating dont give a shit attitude...

However (other than occasionally grandparents who help with childcare) I would never expect anyone else to have to deal with this behaviour and try my best to avoid it... We don't take child to other people houses often and if we do are on high alert ready to attempt descalate a situation or whisk them off early if things kick off. Its a shame that I have to do this but it is no one else's responsibility to deal with consequences of my child's behaviour.

It's not unreasonable for you to say the child can't visit - its not fair that your property is getting destroyed etc - just do it as kindly and tactfully as you can as the parents are probably really struggling.

You’re perfectly right. Don’t host them. End of story

Wth??!! She’s absolutely NOT being unreasonable!! As the mother of a 4 year old on the autistic spectrum I would be mortified if my child behaved like that at someone else’s home and regularly cancel plans due to my child’s mood

Whether or not this child has special needs, her behaviour is totally unacceptable and you should not have to put up with it. My oldest son is autistic and went to a special school. I would never have allowed him to behave like this. In fact, autistic children respond to rules well as a rule. Until she can behave appropriately, you cannot have her in your home.

My four year old doesn't behave like this. Yes he jumps on the beds or climbs the sofa but what we're talking about her doesn't sound like that. It sounds like deliberately doing what's not wanted for whatever reason. I'm really relaxed but I'd struggle with a 4 year old breaking everything or smearing food on walls.

Sounds like either a learning difficulty or not being supported emotionally or taught rules at home. I would say best to meet in the park or softplay or at the parents home.

My guess is that you don’t have any kids.
I’d second the suggestion of meeting elsewhere until she’s a little older because behaviour like that is usually age/stage related

A ‘yes space?’ What is that please?
It is good for children to climb preferably in a suitable space to do so. Of course children will play and occasionally climb on furniture etc, but when they are at other people’s houses they need to be able to adjust their behaviour and at four a child can understand basic instructions. I suspect the problem was a with the parents who do kit give the child boundaries and guidance. If they know she requires activities to stimulate her or would be helpful if they could bring sone things with them or maybe keep the visit shorter or outside and activity based. As well as needing to have fun and play Children need support and guidance about acceptable and unacceptable behaviour. Just saying that they are a child and that they need to climb seems to be implying that the child is in control. Whilst it is good to allow a child a sense of autonomy it is in my view deeply unwise to fail to give them boundaries.

I'm a firm believer that I won't have a poorly patented kid in my house and if the parent doesn't like it maybe that's a sign they should try parenting

Has anyone else thought that this little girl might be on the autistic spectrum or ADHD. Have you thought about a naughty spot so if she breaks the rules she gets a time out when I watch other people children I always say sit at the table until you are finished and if they leave the table I take the food and drink away from the table. if you couldn't care less about the little girl then just stop taking her. If the parents ask why I doubt they will just tell them the truth you can't cope with her .if you do care which I doubt or you would not be writing it here to make yourself feel better but if you do care about her show her how to behave and what's expected in your home. Adopt a naughty spot. And maybe make some treats give gold stars for good behaviour and watch how quickly things change. You have got to watch them 24/7 so they are not destructive and badly behaved. Parents won't mind you doing time outs because this shows that you are looking after them and not leaving them to their own devices. She's only a little girl and if she can earn five gold stars give her a banana or a brownie but make sure that she either takes it home or sits at your table.she maybe can't help her behaviour as I said ADHD or on the autistic spectrum. Maybe 🤔.

@Weflewinstyle mumsnet bingo at its finest!

I think you have come to the point you have had enough i don’t blame you.

From now on suggest to meet at parks, go for walks, I wonder if her school will pick up on something here and sounds like the child needs to be outdoors as indoors causes her a level of anxiety.

It’s heartbreaking to see wanton destruction when parents are not willing or too exhausted to deal with the behaviour, so from now on make polite excuses you are busy that day, let’s do a family walk and take a picnic (yes even in the winter it’s lovely). You may see a different side to her.