To not want this child in my home?

[AlastorMoodysMadEye]

I feel like I should caveat this with me not actually holding this child responsible. She’s 4 so her behaviour isn’t necessarily something she can self regulate but it’s awful behaviour that her parents also seem to be unable/unwilling to address.

But I’ve had it. Every time she’s here things get broken - from cups to walls and furniture - because she repeatedly plays with or climbs on things she’s asked not to. You ask her not to eat anywhere but the table and she’ll grab her food and run off to the bathroom/bedroom/couch and smear whatever she has wherever she is. You ask her to leave things alone and she won’t until you wrestle them off her and then she will throw a massive tantrum, which can be ear-splitting and often involves her kicking out and more things being damaged or people being hurt.

Obviously the answer is don’t have her back until she behaves but if I set a rule like that it’ll cause the most almighty family row, with generations getting involved, and I’m not sure, knowing that it would be coming, whether I’m actually being unreasonable as how do we expect 4yo children to behave? And I’ll be told stuff is less important than faaaaaaamily.

So AIBU to actually put my home and belongings (and shins) ahead of family unity? Or do I have to suck it up and have my house trashed whenever she comes.

Feral brat? Sounds like that child might be on the spectrum. Not childs fault NHS waiting lists for diagnosis take years,some dont even make it and become adults before its diagnosed or who knows maybe oarents havent asked for assessment at all

Argh! People really need to stop suggesting autism/ADHD/psychopathy in children based on one snapshot of unwanted/negative behaviour. Especially when it is clear that there is poor parenting present.

Mum of 3 here one whom is age 4 and one whom is nuerodiverse and does have challenging behaviour at times. This is not behaviour I would accept from my own children in my own house and would absolutely not tolerate it in anyone else's either (or expect them to). Children need set expectations around behaviour that are age appropriate. My 4 year who is the youngest does try to jump on the couch or wandering around the house with food and it's told not to jump on couches and he must sit at the table or the food is removed.

I wish people would stop suggesting things the OP should do to entertain the child.

Nope.

It's up to her parents.

I would be telling them that THEY are not welcome to stay unless they can occupy and discipline THEIR child.

Put it on them, not the niece.

Good luck with that on Mumsnet BadNomad

@Yellowlegobrick
my fast metabolism not very food oriented kids didn’t eat enough if we were that strict about food. And then when hungry had more meltdowns. So we used different strategies that worked for us. They were never allowed to wander our or everyone else’s house with food in their hands though.

agree the problem here is lazy / permissive parenting. So the OP either needs to manage that out of being her problem by meeting elsewhere or tell / show them more directly (being loud and clear she’s unhappy with behaviour, locking away things she wants to keep safe).

i disagree with PP suggesting the OP entertains her niece. Not her job, and if she does that I bet they’ll come over MORE as it’s a break for them. I have a friend that does this (chronic people pleaser) and she always ends up as the kids entertainer at big get togethers, as she’s not prepared to tell her kids or other people’s kids to run along and play.

im all for boundaries. But firmly and calmly stayed. shouting is a loss of control which models poor behaviour. Can’t expect them not to shout at you (when little or a teen) if you shout at them.

It drives me mad. It's always when there is something negative being discussed. "Oh your child does something you don't like? They're probably autistic." Because autism is the only explanation for when you can't understand why a child does what it does.

Or more likely just the result of extremely permissive parenting. Or, by the sound of it, much parenting at all.
I wonder if the people who insist that all bad / inappropriate behaviour must be explained by special needs realise what an undeservedly bad press they're giving people with additional needs?

So if the parents are not doing the job its fair game for an adult to call 4 year old child who dosent know right from wrong without guidance- a feral brat?

And if he is undiagnosed with special needs, either way an adult calling 4 year old by the names is lame.

If OP knows visits by that family are not suitable for her home arrange to visit them or meet up in an enviroment where the 4 year old can blow some steam off,aka park with playground etc.

So if the parents are not doing the job its fair game for an adult to call 4 year old child who dosent know right from wrong without guidance- a feral brat?
No, of course that doesn't follow. The child can hardly be blamed for it's (is it her?) lack of parenting.

Maybe this has already been asked but - how far is the journey? My niece and nephew have a 2.5 hour trip to visit us - during which they’ll have watched a screen for most of time as not much else to do in a car. So either we arrange to meet them in the soft play that is en route. Or once they’ve arrived and been the loo and had a drink, we he head to the park to wear them out a bit!

They’re nearly 5 and 7 and my brother and wife are definitely looking for a bit of a break from them when they come down (as well as to see us) so I do make an effort to ensure that they are entertained. Although I have the advantage of having a 15 and 12 year old to distract! Also am far more patient with small kids having had my own…

if you don’t have kids it is a bit much. But she is only 4. I would just say a lot of ‘no, thanks!’. Good luck.

Skim read so apologies if this has been covered already but does she have any kind of SEN? Also does she behave like this at other relatives homes too?

DH is on board with not tolerating this anymore, it’s just that I’m worried about the terrible controlling DIL narrative coming out, though I really should be old enough to not care what they think
Is he on board with not tolerating the mayhem, as long as you deal with it? Or has he said "I understand you might feel awkward being the one to deal with it, so as it's my family, I'll take responsibility for sorting it out."

What happened to adults teaching children the proper way to behave? I expect I'll be called an old fogey, but when I had my kids, they were taught not to touch things that I didn't want broken. I could take them anywhere and they were always welcome. My sister on the other hand, allowed her kids to behave however they wanted, and just moved all her ornaments, etc., to higher and higher shelves as her kids got bigger. Surprise, surprise, our DM hated my nieces and nephews visiting, as she had to either tell them off, or move things in her home. If they came to my house, and went to touch things I didn't want touched, I told them not to. If my sister had been stupid enough to say anything, when they went running to her, saying that Aunty had told them off, I'd have told her, 'my house, my rules, you don't like it, well don't come again, or, teach your kids how to behave in other people's houses'. This applied to all kids that came to our house, and very few misbehaved, it all comes down to being firm with them and setting boundaries right from the start in my opinion, but I dare say there will be lots of excuses about, who has time to watch their kids 24/7 these days? My answer would be, don't have kids if you can't look after them, and teach them how to behave properly.

I wouldn’t have her back. No way.

theleafandnotthetree · Today 19:03
You obviously did not read my other posts. I did not say that OP should tolerate it. Cannot stand this arrogant, holier-than-thou attitude, as if simply declaring that you would not tolerate something magically solves the problem, without giving the person specific strategies. The OP said that the 4 year old would wander off as soon as entering the home and would begin interfering with her things. There is no time there to "not tolerate it." By the time you find the 4 year old and say "I will not tolerate this!" your piano is destroyed and your dresser is emptied all over the floor. How do you troubleshoot this problem? As soon as the family walks in the door, instead of letting the parents take up your attention with getting them drinks and relaying their funny story about Aunt Betty while the 4 year old runs off to destroy your things, you tell them "Why don't you take Nora out to the back garden to run around while I get some drinks ready. Remember not to let her climb on the fence, it has sharp rocks on the other side." It's the parents' job to supervise their child here, but the homeowner can and should certainly be directing the schedule and conversation in a way that meets her own needs also.

We had one of these out of control children age 4 onwards upsetting our children., trampling toys etc. We discovered he had a sugar plus diet, including orange juicecordial, to which he was addicted, almost wrecked our house. It turned out he was banned from every other house on the estate, never invited to parties, would run amok, not be checked or listen to adults, not a relative but a friends child, exhausting.
I completely fell out with the mother and didn’t see them again, shame you are unable to do this.
They moved away after a few years, shunned by other parents and in remedial class at school where he was deemed a nuisance. They didn’t have another child, she always said he was gifted and bored. Because she adored him she constantly made excuses for him, this child with behavioural problems
He now has a big house in Barnes, married a wealthy woman from a mega wealthy family, is something in the City, turned out fine in the end, with a trail of devastation behind him.
Good luck OP

Well, several people advised op to not have her in the house at all, just meet up somewhere halfway between the two families 🤷🏻‍♀️
That qualifies as "how not to tolerate it", doesn't it?

You go and visit them instead of them visiting you then. The most obvious solution until your DNiece grows up and can be civilised in other family homes.

The 4yo should be getting outdoors instead of cooped up indoors. My lot are out climbing hills and walking in the countryside as I like to wear them out each day, especially in the holidays. Their behaviour is much better if they are out exercising in the fresh air.

The op doesn’t want to fall out with the child’s parents

the parents don’t entertain the child

the op doesn’t want the house wrecked

so for many the solution is to play with the child, as clearly the uncle, mum and dad aren’t, they leave the child to run amuck

so for many the solution is to entertain the child

I feel sorry for all these kids who are taught that the world will adapt to them. Actually no, I feel more sorry for the people who will encounter them. I had one super strict gran and one laissez faire (unless it pissed her off) one. I knew from an early age which one I could run around like a loon in and which one I was on best behaviour with. I loved them both equally. It also taught me how to adapt my behaviour to the situation.

There seems to be a lot of people suggesting you meet on neutral grounds and almost sweep this under the carpet. I suspect you've bitten your tongue long enough. It's time for action
Where are the parents when this is happening? Are they aware? I'd be taking a video next time to reference. I definitely don't think you should be skirting around the issue. At 4 years old this will soon have a massive impact on her. Who's going to want the wild child as a friend let alone for a play date. She'll be the kid parents ask fir their own child to be kept away from!
You're quite reasonable to not want your house (or yourself!) damaged.
Of course you don't need to be aggressive or even judgemental. I'd imagine you do actually love the parent to have put up with this. If it's say your daughter's or sisters child's, ask them kindly what's going on and how they manage at home. It could well be that they know perfectly well their child's behaviour is out of hand but they're clueless how to address it. Maybe offer to help implement the new 'rules/method'ready for school. You do of course need an assurance that something is going to change.
Is it possible there are some additional needs at play eg ADHD?

I blame the parents

Seriously? In their own home, maybe. And it already sounds like that’s the case if they behave that way somewhere else. But you can’t expect the child to be given the same pass to behave feral in someone else’s home. Respect other peoples’ boundaries in their own home.