To not want this child in my home?

[AlastorMoodysMadEye]

I feel like I should caveat this with me not actually holding this child responsible. She’s 4 so her behaviour isn’t necessarily something she can self regulate but it’s awful behaviour that her parents also seem to be unable/unwilling to address.

But I’ve had it. Every time she’s here things get broken - from cups to walls and furniture - because she repeatedly plays with or climbs on things she’s asked not to. You ask her not to eat anywhere but the table and she’ll grab her food and run off to the bathroom/bedroom/couch and smear whatever she has wherever she is. You ask her to leave things alone and she won’t until you wrestle them off her and then she will throw a massive tantrum, which can be ear-splitting and often involves her kicking out and more things being damaged or people being hurt.

Obviously the answer is don’t have her back until she behaves but if I set a rule like that it’ll cause the most almighty family row, with generations getting involved, and I’m not sure, knowing that it would be coming, whether I’m actually being unreasonable as how do we expect 4yo children to behave? And I’ll be told stuff is less important than faaaaaaamily.

So AIBU to actually put my home and belongings (and shins) ahead of family unity? Or do I have to suck it up and have my house trashed whenever she comes.

That sounds like a lot for OP to do. It’s need to be led by the parents.

In the short term, don't give her food unless you actively control it. Sit her at the table and hold on to the plate/bowl, and close the door she can't make a run for it if she should snatch it.

It's telling you that she is allowed to do what she pleases, hasn't been taught how to behave in someone else's house and her parents don't say no!

The relationship to you OP is just a touch relevant

Not really. Whether the child is a niece, cousin, whatever, OP doesn’t need to have her in her home. Unless it’s her daughter.

Or step daughter

I used to know some people who let their two boys jump on other people's furniture, play football in the house, chase people's cars etc. They stopped being invited anywhere and it was a very sociable group. The parents suffered really but they had chosen that parenting style. The boys are adult now and quite 'normal" as far as I know.

I had a set of twins start in my school nursery class. The first couple of days they were jumping on furniture and trying to rip things off the wall, mobiles from the ceiling etc. I just had a quiet word and said 'we don't do that in school' they said 'oh OK' and never did it again. No SEN just a different set of rules at home.

This might well be the case here or the child might need an assessment but the parents need to know it isn't acceptable. Some first time parents think their children's challenging behaviour is OK as they have nothing else to compare it to.

What's that, an outdoor playground?

Yes agree with pp meet out of your house or perhaps the parents house.

I have a couple of friends whose kids were like this and I eventually realised that I would only meet in the park or elsewhere. I didn’t make a big deal out of it, but I reckon my friends must’ve realised that I was avoiding letting their kids in my home. Luckily they are all old enough now to not come round!

If you are an aunt or cousin, meet elsewhere than your home. If you are grandma and family events are always held at your home, then maybe meet (have lunch) in the garden instead of the house, or severely baby-proof your house so that she cannot go anywhere but one area - fences and gates, lock rooms that are off-limits, put medicines out of reach (preferably in a locked room), remove all breakables, get her plastic cups and plates so she doesn't break your things, etc.

The parents should really be doing things like shadowing her while she is in someone else's home, to make sure that she doesn't destroy property belonging to other people, teaching her what's off limits, etc. I bet she will get an ADHD diagnosis later but it doesn't matter in the sense that there is likely not a medication that will be given at age 4 to control behavior, so it's all about managing the behavior and teaching skills, which means very hands-on parenting. Also, spending lots of time outside, running around, to wear off that nervous energy. Vigorous exercise usually gives kids with ADHD a few minutes of focused attention span, so good to do before lunch etc.

I'm guessing the problem here is that the parents don't acknowledge a problem and expect she should be allowed to run wild in your home, destroy your things, and you should put up with it because faaaaamily. That is a hard problem to solve and I just wouldn't. Sometimes the only way to get parents to look into the root cause of a problematic behavior is to make it their problem. Right now, if they can go to family functions and pretend someone's plates getting broken repeatedly is just normal family action, then they can ignore it indefinitely.

If there are no other developmental issues, this sounds very unusual for 4 years old. Are there other concerns or is this also something hard to discuss due to family dynamics ?

Do not allow her in your home till she behaves. Too bad if it causes a family row. Otherwise it will be more of the same.

You are definitely NOT being unreasonable. Children will of course behave inappropriately but parents need to deal with it and there should be clear boundaries and consequences. Letting your four year old child ignore instructions, break things and smear food in someone else’s house is clearly unacceptable. Your situation would stress me so much that I would have to address it regardless of any family fall outs. At four years old she is capable of following instructions and being respectful of other peoples homes.

I should think most grandparents have toys at their houses for the grandchildren to play with. If there are things they enjoy playing with, they are surely more likely to keep away from things they shouldn’t be near. We’d also move any breakables out of the way and break up visits with some time outside.

When people visit your house, surely you’re not unreasonable to want them to respect your property. If this child’s parents can’t or won’t intervene, meeting outside or elsewhere, would seem to be the answer. I wouldn’t accept my things being trashed.

Sounds like a hideous little brat. Personally I’d have a dog crate in the corner and put the badly behaved child in there until it learns some manners.

Out of nosiness, what do the parents do when she does this stuff? There’s quite a difference between being boisterous and smearing food on the wallpaper.

I have a friend whose children are older and a bit like this (but not as bad to be fair). The cushions are taken off the sofas to make dens, there’s lots of messy, creative play - it all sounds lovely but Christ it makes a mess.

Re the food being taken away - I am strict about this because we sometimes get mice and they’re a nightmare to get rid of. Food has to stay in the kitchen / dining room. It just can’t be any other way.

If the parents just chuckle fondly and say “Oh how lovely that Arabella is so creative, the little poppet” then yeah, they just can’t come over.

Just meet somewhere else. I wouldn’t want this in my house whilst parents sit back and allow it?? different if they are struggling with her. But to call a child a feral little brat just horrible. That’s not to say I’d want that behaviour in my home but I can step back and try to understand if a child has additional needs etc - my own son is asd/adhd so experienced child who can meltdown etc he hasn’t broken anything etc. not all kids are the same though. Must be incredibly frustrating op. The other family are doing this child a massive disservice by not addressing and dealing with this behaviour which is sad as clearly there is something going on, be it sen or bad behaviour it can’t go on.

Found the parent.

Honestly a 'yes space' in a house? Fuck that.

She’s DH’s niece - obviously my niece too but the dynamic is slightly different as it’s with my in-laws rather than my own family. And we live a pretty decent distance away so visits aren’t frequent or drop ins, they’re expected to be overnight stays or more. It makes it very difficult to meet out of the house too as if we meet midway we’d have to do lunch somewhere and she’ll get up and bolt in restaurants or cafes with no care or awareness of other people.

Her mother tends to try with her behaviour but gives up quickly in the face of a kicking tantrum. SIL also is a big fan of “say sorry to auntie MadEye” which the child will do but then will resume the exact same behaviour. BIL is useless and just seems to accept the behaviour as normal and reasonable. That is if he looks up from his phone long enough to notice.

We childproof as much as we can because I get that small children might not understand the concept of fragile, but there are things you can’t move. Like a piano I’d rather not have her pour juice onto or a garden wall I don’t want her walking along the top of (having found an ingenious way to climb it). The whole time she’s here I’m on edge about her hurting herself, breaking something or losing something of ours. One of DH’s wellies was missing for weeks after one stay because she’d decided to hide it inside a suitcase under a bed in a room she shouldn’t have been in. Goodness knows how she managed it but if I’m cooking or out or in the bathroom and DH is engaged elsewhere she seems to have the freedom to create massive mischief.

@AlastorMoodysMadEye Just tell them the truth and that they'll be invited back when she's house trained!

The simple answer is to say no to her staying with you , if that's not possible just get the hell out of it when she gets dumped on you . After making sure everything of yours you value is locked away in a room only you have a key for

YANBU OP. I wouldn't tolerate this awful behaviour in my house either. Meet elsewhere or visit her in her own home if you like/ are related to the parents - at least that way your house isn't trashed.

Thrse judgemental threads make me sad. It may well be the child has Sen

If you think it's down to lazy parenting and lack of supervision rather than something wrong with the child then I'd definitely say something and insist on food/drink being consumed in the kitchen only. I think it's very reasonable not to expect your house to be wrecked by a small child. Aciddenta happen of course but this sounds a lot more.