To be upset she changed her mind?

[Primgo]

I'm really confused over if I'm being completely unreasonable to be upset about this.

I basically got into quite bad financial trouble because I owned my own business for many years but got seriously ill and went out of business while I was ill.

I ended up unable to pay rent etc so I have been staying with people for about a year.

All this was very hard to cope with. I'd always done well and losing everything while being so ill was hard and I still feel completely depressed all the time.

To cut a very long story short, my sister (very happily) agreed to help me out by being a guarantaur on a loan to help me sort out the various problems.

Not a huge loan by her standards as she's very wealthy.

On the day due to sign the papers, she changed her mind.

I'd arranged everything around the understanding she was doing this and now I'm completely screwed and whatever problems I had before are now 10 x worse.

I wish she'd just said no to begin with rather than waiting until the day to do it.

She wasn't apologetic, she was sort of mean about it. Judgemental. And I just feel incredibly let down.

Am I being unreasonable here? I know nobody owes you to guarantee a loan, but I just feel absolutely bereft and panicked.

I'm always baffled by Mumsnet on threads like this. Of course it's beyond shitty for someone - assuming there's no backstory - who earns an astronomical salary to refuse a small loan, even just to act as guarantor, to help their sibling who has fallen on incredibly hard times through no fault of their own. Especially when they previously promised to help. And especially when it impacts things like housing and education. It's not like OP wants a loan for a convertible or veneers.

This isn't some random person off the street. It's her sister! People have a very funny idea of what family means. What's the point of family at all if they don't care about you and aren't willing to offer the tiniest bit of help in your hour of need? I'd never do this to any of my siblings and I'd be utterly ashamed if one of my children did it to another.

Your sister gave you hope. Then snatched it away.

i agree with you OP. She had months to think this through, even encouraged you to make moves you’d have not done because she was going to help.

does your sister want to see you fail? Is she revelling in the fact you’re the ‘poor’ one? Sibling rivalry isn’t alway in your face nastiness. Especially with girls. It can be something like this. Promises then leaving you to deal with the fallout.

you need to accept your sister cannot be relied upon. Though I would guilt trip her a bit about her nieces uni accommodation and it’s unfair she’s punishing her rather than you with her change of mind but that’s me.

on a lighter note if you’re on a low income now your DD can and should apply via uni for any and every support that she has available to her. if she’s not working can she do so for the next couple of weeks to help fund her accommodation? Your earning now is there chance for short term overtime to help build up that accommodation fund?

I don't know why the sister is being treated as a big bad wolf for poor innocent red riding hood we only know the op's version

It was cruel of her to change her mind but your attitude that it isn’t much money to her is very off. You are not entitled to her money just because she is wealthier than you. Bear in mind, because of the tax rate she will be on, she will have to earn nearly double the amount that she gives you, in order to pay for your loan. Loans from friends and family usually cause resentment on both sides and are rarely paid back. Maybe someone has advised her not to do it.

Sounds like she’s waited deliberately to shaft you which makes her an evil cunt.

I would be going NC with her so she can’t superior to you.

Why did she open her big gob if she never wanted to be guarantor?

Fuck her, OP. You’ll get through this but she’s a greedy bitch.

We only ever get the OP’s version. If you want to get the sister’s version, crack on.

You said your sister was fine with it right up till she received the contract. Was there something in the contract she wasn't bargaining on that made it a different risk than she was expecting to agree to?

I agree it stinks that she has pulled out last minute but given when she pulled out, I wonder if she felt she had good reason to change her mind? I'd rather back out myself than put my family in a precarious financial position, if there was new information that changed the position.

Your sister made financial promises to you which you relied on to your financial detriment.

Morally, I think she is at least somewhat at fault because, as someone quite savvy with money, she clearly would have known that backing out of the deal at the last minute would make things even worse for you. As you point out, she is the one who pushed you to get an apartment by saying she would help you afford it with a loan. If she hadn't dangled on a hook her offer to help you with a loan, you wouldn't have taken the apartment, hence you likely would not be in quite such a bad place now that you don't have a loan.

On the other hand, you relied on a promise that you couldn't enforce, to take a financial risk on getting the apartment. I understand you were desperate, and you are close to your sister and thought she would come through for you, but you still sorta spent money that you didn't yet have, it sounds like.

Probably would be a good idea not to trust your sister again, or to rely on her word. People who make that kind of money and live that kind of lifestyle, they don't get there by giving it away. They hold on to their money, if you know what I mean.

Also, don't ever give her money or help her. She'll just use you probably. She thinks that having more money makes her better than you (hence the judgy lecture) and people like that, in my experience, tend to feel you owe them money just for them spending their valuable time talking to you and their pearls of wisdom (even though, as you've found, their pearls of wisdom sometimes turn out to be poison pills that end up costing you money you don't have).

I'm sorry to say it.

I do admit there's another side to this. We've also had the relative, down on their luck, who came looking for a loan, complete with official loan terms, interest they would pay us back, etc. Come to find out later, they gave the same "hard luck" story to multiple other relatives, got loans from several of them; years later they are making lots of money but have paid back none of the loans. Zero. That kind of thing tends to leave a bad taste in your mouth, and I bet she's heard a few of those stories from her friends that maybe gave her cold feet. So I see her side of things. I just agree with you that once you made irreversible financial decisions on the basis of her promise, that it was quite mean of her to back out, especially at the last minute like that.

If I were you I'd learn from this. However much money your sister has, she's not going to give it to you or help you. Not in any way

On Monday ring stepchange and CAB and get things straightened out using their advice

Nothing is insurmountable and this can be sorted out

I'd avoid asking for anything from anyone again. Walk your own path by yourself, in future

I agree with Ladybug. Take a deep breath, and start working through the problem the best you can. Virtual hugs for you!

Speak to your daughter's accommodation provider. In similar circumstances, my DC's rental company agreed to wait until the first student loan payment arrived (so a couple of weeks into term), for the full deposit.

Or say to your your sister that you understand she'd rather not be a guarantor, but because the chamge came at short notice, might she consider directly loaning her niece the accommodation deposit and she can repay it put of the first term's student loan payment? Meanwhile your daughter gets part-time work to cover the extra she'll need for living costs.

Why is your sister being judgemental with you about it? Does she fully understand your previous circumstances and illness? Doesn’t she believe you? Does she think there is something you could have done better?

I’ve guaranteed a sibling’s mortgage, bought a house for a parent, and made a “temporary “ private loan of £10k to someone my DH trusted. The sibling no longer talks to me, because, despite that guarantorship being the tip of the favour iceberg, there is simply not enough I can do for her in our one way street relationship, and I had to stop bending over backwards for her whenever she called. The parent trashed the house and made it unsellable by the time they passed away. The borrower didn’t pay us back for years (it was supposed to be a couple of months to get his debts sorted, debts run up by trying to keep up appearances when his business wasn’t paying him enough to have the lifestyle his wife and he wanted), made a massive deal about how mean we were for wanting it returned, bad mouthed us with the friendship group etc etc.

My general view in life now is never a lender or a borrower be. However, if my sister who no longer speaks to me nearly died (as you say you did, OP) and requires help for housing, her kids’ university and other good reasons that are out of her control or arisen not through her own foolishness, but because life has given her a kicking, I would. She’s made completely different life choices to me, but I couldn’t in all consciousness see her sink. And, unless there’s a massive back story/additional story you aren’t telling us, i don’t understand your sister’s reasoning. I can’t imagine most people would do that to a sibling.

What an absolute cunt your sister is

This unfortunately can be how kindness is repaid.

In your and your sister’s circumstances op I’d give you the money. I think you should consider going no contact. She sounds cruel.

It was a shitty thing to do. And I'm not buying any of the "maybe her circumstances has changed" garbage - if that was the case she'd have been apologetic not sneering.

I hope you'd reconsider giving her "the shirt off your back" if she needed it @Primgo - it wouldn't make you the bigger person, it'd make you a fool.

You've made it this far, you'll get past this too. And when you do remember who your friends really are.

Guarantor loans are very risky, and not provided by any of the mainstream lenders. The APR’s are high, and in all honesty, it’s all risk and no return for the guarantor. Any financial advisor would advise against them.

I agree it's likely seeing the contract and realising the risks that sparked the u-turn. In her position, she was probably not used to the grimness of such contracts and it's given her the fear. She may well have that amount in her bank account but that doesn't mean she wants to pay off a bad loan with it and never see it again.

Sorry it's hit you hard after everything you've been through. It's a shame about your apartment in particular because it would have been better to use the deposit money you had to pay your friends back first. You didn't need to be persuaded by your sister to spend money. You have to take responsibility for your own choices and not rely on others like her and money you don'T have yet. But you know that now. Hopefully your dd's accommodation can be covered with the advice from PPs. The rest will be tough to deal with and I feel for you. Good luck with getting back on your feet.

I’m on the fence with this one. The sister shouldn’t have allowed you to make plans which mean you’re now more screwed if she had doubts - but did she know you were making plans? Had you tied yourself into contracts that anticipated being in receipt of that money? If so, that’s on you, I feel - but then I’m not very trusting and wouldn’t action any plans until the money was in my bank.
You also had an illness that destroyed your business. Is the illness likely to return and compromise your ability to repay the loan? If so (depression? Cancer? Long covid?) I would have had doubts about going through with the promise, too. If it was a “confined” illness with a defined end-point, then I would have been more relaxed about the loan if I was as wealthy as you suggest your sister is.
The sister behaved badly by not acting on her doubts much, much sooner. But (sorry, not rtft) there is information missing from the OP that makes commentary difficult!

She shouldn't have said yes in the first place. But it sounds like you made plans for the money before you had them? YABU for that.

Would your sister lend your DD the money for her accommodation directly? Presumably a smaller sum and it’s her niece.

Of course OP "made plans for the money". She was borrowing it with 2 specific purposes in mind, it wasn't just a random request so she'd have money in her pocket.

Was “the last minute” the first time she read the contract?
or had she read the contract when she initially agreed to help you?

I just don't spend money I don't have in the bank. Loans can fall through for all kinds of reasons. The sister should not have agreed though, and it was shitty to back out. I'm not disputing that.

I'm sorry she did that to you. Being guarantor is a serious legal financial.binding. Can you file for bankruptcy to dissolve the company and debts? Claim universal credits to top.up your income, and tell the university your financial situations changed. Do student loans cover accommodation? I think your friends going to have to wait a while longer until you're back on your feet, until the loans repaid. Just call her and explain what happened.

Horrible of her to play along for so long and then drop you in it at the last minute. She sounds nasty and spiteful to boot, so I'd probably just ditch her. No idea what I'd do about the money situation though. Have you tried a loan from Lendable? They gave me one a few years ago and I didn't need a guarantor even though my credit rating wasn't the best.

It may be that when she read the contract, she realised that the risk was too high.

I agree with PPS, if I had the actual cash, I'd rather give it to a sibling than guarantee their loan. At least then, I'd have certainty and know I'd never see the money again.