Is my child a psychopath?

[Cindertoffebuns]

I have 4 kids. All girls
They have adhd and we do our very best to manage this in a variety of different ways. We are very firm at home.

Today they went to a holiday club. DD 2 picked a ball up and threw it at DD 3 hurting her. Apparently this was before a game had started. She then didn’t bother to say sorry or check if she was ok ect. Just thought it would be a laugh to hurt her and run off. She is 10. Sister is 8.

Asking if she is likely a psychopath as she didn’t stop and check and she’s going into year 6 this year, that’s not normal is it.
For context she is the child that is the most mean spirited out of all of them. Always has to take things too far or ruin the day by hurting somebody.
She does have autism but can’t see this as an excuse tbh. Day 1 of the summer holidays and I could have relied on her to ruin them.
I know that sounds mean but I’m exasperated and her sisters are starting to really feel the impact of having to be around her so much.
The rest of us are so nice, why is she so mean spirited?

Exactly. @BiscuitsandPuffin sorry but your post made me angry with your very clear and deliberate misinformation coupled with your claim that you "work in this area".

You may well do but you clearly don't have a competent grasp on the scope of the causes (and the main crux which is that there is no single identifiable cause) of this condition.

Telling a mum who's concerned about their child that it can only be caused by awful, significant trauma seems very off.

What was the consequence for this behaviour?
My DC with ADHD is impulsive, sometimes mean, often doesn’t think things through but he certainly understands a punishment and what it was for.

Do all 4 of your children have ADHD? What ages?

The way you describe your children is appalling

one is lovely and lights up the room, she’s nice, she’s like the rest of you.

the other one is different, mean spirited, not like the rest of the family, ‘always’ ruins everything. She’s not normal.

theres no way the kid isn’t picking up on how you think about her.
you also clearly have no idea about autism or about psychopaths but you’re willing to dismiss one and diagnose another.

Maybe you’re struggling to teach her kindness and empathy because you seem to be struggling with it yourself

Psychopathy is a serious psychiatric diagnosis, not something to label a child with because they do some things you don't like.

Rather than thinking of your DD as 'mean spirited' (which isn't a nice thing to say at all about your child), can you think of anything you actually like about her and that she's good at, and encourage her in that?

Splitting your children into one being 'all good' and one being 'all bad' is only going to hurt them and you.

This behaviour is pretty common between siblings tbh

Jessica Kingsley publish lots of good books on a variety of conditions. Some are aimed at parents and professionals but they also have workbooks for children of all ages that are designed to help them develop a better understanding of themselves and the world
https://uk.jkp.com/collections/adhd-neurodiversity-pid-801?_pos=1&_psq=ADHD&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Things like ‘did you say sorry? Did you not know the ball would hit her? You wouldn’t like that done to you, would you?’ will help. I remember reading something about how children don’t really ‘know’ the word sorry until they’re older, they just repeat it. It’s a case of getting it into their head that it’s nice to be nice and you wouldn’t like it done to you. Yes 10 seems old and you’ve probably been saying all of this, but just keep going and maybe play some games with both where they get to team up and have fun together so they properly become friends

😂 sounds like normal sister to be honest. Many go through it

If she had done it to an older kid would she have said sorry? Or does she do it because she 1) knows her sister won't hurt her back and 2) because she's bigger

Have never told her those things I’ve come to a parent forum instead.
she absolutely is not the scapegoat child. She gets 90% of the attention in our house because she demands it.
I provided context so as not to drip feed, not to paint her out to be awful. I would not have got the advice I needed had I pretended that her behaviour was always the same as the others.
fwiw youngest is more adhd but has more empathy so not as worried in that respect.
we are devoted to her and to helping and supporting her. But I equally don’t want her to turn out a dickhead.

Do you have any siblings, OP? I don't know any close in age who didn't fight like cats and dogs as children. Whether it was through jealousy or trying to assert dominance it was, and is, very normal behaviour. Now if you'd said she tries to stab her or set her on fire, that would be something to worry about. But being a dick to your sister isn't unusual.

Not really sure how it can be appalling when I did not describe my other dd at all. I said “she is often described by others as” school reports ect.
and described my ten year olds needs, context and the personality traits I was concerned about.
had I been describing them both in my own words it would have been completely different.
All four kids are wonderful in their own very different ways.

Perhaps a referral to CAMHS would be the best way of pursuing further assessment/discussion of concerns.
Simply an information share - psychiatric assessments can exist for primary aged children.

That could be normal 2 year old behaviour or could be sign of attachment issues.

How firm are you?
Are you firm as in really really strict to the point of controlling? Or firm as in a nice balance of understanding, affection and conversation when they do something wrong?

I'm not saying this is how you are as parents but in my experience when a child is cruel to their siblings or other children especially outside the home, it's often when the parents are too strict and cold with punishment.
Sometimes you have to show them how to love others

Totally agree.

I don't see how it helps to label your child a psychopath/ not a psychopath.

If you're concerned about her behaviour and how she is dealing with difficult emotions, then you need to take her to see a professional. She will need empathy, love and understanding from her parents to get through whatever is going on for her.

I dont think it’s really that unusual to throw a ball at your little sister and not check how she was.

If my 10 year old did that my 8 year old would chase after them and throw the ball back!

Just reading your OP, my older brother was very like your DD in that he would deliberately hurt us siblings a lot when we were younger, especially my younger brothers. I remember thinking he was a complete psychopath, he did some super calculated and painful things, and we didn’t understand it at all as it was so unlike the rest of our nature. Us siblings were all on egg shells around him until I became a bolshy teen, although he still bullied my other siblings (unless I caught him and called him out). He also has ADHD.

Just to reassure you he is nothing at all like that now! He is super loving, affectionate, desperate to be close to us siblings, sociable, contributes massively to the community, is a brilliant dad, popular, outgoing and a wonderful husband who supports his wife in every way possible.

He was being bullied at school and was very jealous of the other siblings as none of us were and we had very different school experiences. Our parents were also very strict on him and I but not the others. He became very independent as an older teen/young adult, developed totally separate hobbies, went to a different sixth form, moved away for uni and totally grew out of his bullying ways.

I hope this is encouraging to you that your DD is likely not a psychopath and still has plenty of time to mature and change, she may just need some help getting there. Worth looking at how she is treated at school and home, and how she feels about herself and her siblings. All the best

What are the consequences when she chooses to do things like this?

I don't think that people who have not experienced it can understand what you are describing. I've worked in schools supporting children with ASD/ADHD for many years now and I have come across a few children like this. This is not "just" ADHD/ASD. The vast majority of children with ADHD and ASD do not behave in this way. There are these few though who just cannot see that other people matter. They will hurt other children just because they are bored and it entertains them. They are so focused on having attention that they absolutely do not care if that attention is positive or negative.

To be clear, this is an absolutely tiny minority of children.

Sadly, I don't think there are any easy answers. I'd concentrate on positive attention for the good stuff and ignore the bad as much as possible. You aren't mad to be asking the question though.

When my youngest DD who is now 20 was 3 stuck a biro in her 8 year olds sister arm in the back of a car I didn't know what to do, however I now know she has something although she tricked every professional so we never got a diagnosis, quite frankly it was hell at the time and i don't know how my DH (her SD) coped, shes stll 'odd' and shows zero empathy but has grown out of the worst, wishing you best of luck x

You are asking a bunch of strangers on a internet forum to diagnose if your daughter is a psychopath?

Yes, I think she is. GET HER COMMITTED NOW. There is no hope. commit her, walk away and throw away the key.

And here we have yet once again the misuse of psychiatric conditions.
How utterly ridiculous, your child has a diagnosed neurodevelopmental condition and yet you think they might be a psychopath. Fuck sake get the social work in.

You have worked in schools? Unless as a mental health nurse or psychiatrist specialising in children and young people I really don’t think you can offer a medical opinion. This is why people self diagnosis, duff information.