Is my child a psychopath?

[Cindertoffebuns]

I have 4 kids. All girls
They have adhd and we do our very best to manage this in a variety of different ways. We are very firm at home.

Today they went to a holiday club. DD 2 picked a ball up and threw it at DD 3 hurting her. Apparently this was before a game had started. She then didn’t bother to say sorry or check if she was ok ect. Just thought it would be a laugh to hurt her and run off. She is 10. Sister is 8.

Asking if she is likely a psychopath as she didn’t stop and check and she’s going into year 6 this year, that’s not normal is it.
For context she is the child that is the most mean spirited out of all of them. Always has to take things too far or ruin the day by hurting somebody.
She does have autism but can’t see this as an excuse tbh. Day 1 of the summer holidays and I could have relied on her to ruin them.
I know that sounds mean but I’m exasperated and her sisters are starting to really feel the impact of having to be around her so much.
The rest of us are so nice, why is she so mean spirited?

No of course not, she's likely to be a bit immature and impulse also some times siblings do things like throw balls at each other and other things to annoy each other even without any SEND

Hang in there. As someone else said emotionally children with ADHD can be years behind in their development. I honestly thought my child would never learn to take other peoples feelings into consideration but they have learnt and can now be the most caring, understanding and supportive person I know. They can also have days were it is all too much and they go into survival mode thinking only of themselves.
I find it helpful to think of their behaviour as a music mixing desk- the little buttons go up and down daily, the ‘sound’ ( their behaviour and abilities) goes up and down too..

A two year old diagnosed with ADHD? Really?

It seems to be bothering you that the throwing of the ball was “unprovoked “ and that she did not respond empathetically with the result (sister was hurt) but that is your way of looking at it. There are other ways of understanding it.

1. she may have been trying to start play and not been physically organized enough or socially aware enough to begin by sating “lets play” and waiting until the game started.

2. she may not have understood she hurt her sister.

3. she may not have understood how to make the repair in a socially acceptable way.

4. she may not be able to articulate why she did it and she may feel ashamed and incompetent compared to more socially assured younger siblings.

You have to change the way you are thinking.
Try sitting her down calmly and ask her what she felt at the time. It is difficult to parent an autistic child. Learn yourself and teach her at the same time.
No one is saying hitting is good behaviour. Teach her about consequences of her actions. E. G. Take a game away for hitting, while showing her other ways to manage her feelings e.g. Taking herself away into a different room or like a fidget toy.
You have to try different things. It's not a one shoe fits all kind of scenario. Be gentle with her and try not to shout at her.

I have a close family friend In another country who's child is 12 and had several interventions due to the behaviour and how they handles their emotions or lack there of at times.
They have been diagnosed with PDA ( pathological demand avoidance) and ADP ( antisocial personality disorder) and written in the notes the child psychiatrist stated 'there is a concerning lack of empathy with a overdeveloped sense of vengeance'

Even with the most severe behaviour that word hasn't ever been mentioned... as yet I'm not sure if it ever is now as it's quite old fashioned. so I really don't think you need to worry unless there is a lot of behaviour missed out and it's constant.

Op hasn't said she was dx at 2, she says she has 4 dds and she is talking about dd2 who is 10

Even if a child struggles with appreciating the impact of their actions you have to keep trying. It's hard but it's not an either/or situation. Plus I always used to try to get the behaviour first and then work on the understanding.

I do understand how upsetting it feels but don't see trying to teach her as a lost cause, more an ongoing project which will take longer than average

She’s a child. How about you find out the reasons why she’s acting out rather than calling her psychopath. Sit her down and have a little chat when everyone is less dysregulated. Find out what’s going on. Maybe she’s acting out because she needs your attention?

Then she has empathy and compassion.

She just doesn't know how to show it to humans yet, and what situations you should show it to humans.

She needs to learn those.

The children involved are 10 and 8.

Autistic people have a different experience of emotions. They also show feelings differently so can appear uncaring when it is not the case. Some things she may feel strongly other things not so much. It doesn't make her a psychopath it makes her neurodiverse. Don't judge her for being different

It's very unlikely. I understand why you are worried as coping with a young child with ADHD/ASD and who has low impulse control is difficult and stressful.

I have a now adult son with ADHD/ASD who was very similar. Once bust his sibling's nose with a cricket bat (accidentally but he thought it was funny at the time).

I used to worry what he would be like as an adult but he's actually pretty great these days. He has his struggles still but he's much calmer and his empathy/people skills have come on a lot.

Try to take one day at a time and not worry about future 'what ifs' which I know is easier said than done.

It’s all this warrants

She clearly has empathy and compassion but not for one of her nearest in age siblings.

Looks like you have sibling rivalry as well as the ASD to deal with.

As soon as you can and when you can get them to do different things.

This is the kind of thing I did sometimes as a child that age. Not an excuse but I was dealing with the effects of bullying and domestic and sexual abuse. I did struggle a lot with regulating emotions and I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder in my 20s. I could be very sensitive and didn't lack empathy much of the time but I had a spiteful streak when I felt invalidated, shamed or ignored.

I have a memory that still upsets me a bit. I stamped on a ladybird once (I was upset that day and also wanting to do something to lash out). My father, rightly was horrified and stamped on my foot in a hard shoe, so I would know how it felt. I shudder looking back. I now always strive to be kind to animals, and love my pets. Little girls can be very cruel.

I don't know why people are being unpleasant about your questions. Psychopaths exist, and are children before they are adults.

OP @Cindertoffebuns I have taught in prison and known many, I have also known several children who got a diagnosis of psychopathy ( sociopathy) when they became adults.

Throwing a ball to hurt someone doesn't come close.

PLANNING for a baby sibling to fall out of a window, hurting pets, taking insane, but thought through risks with traffic etc, I have seen this

What you describe is impulsive, but not dangerous of cruel to the extent I have seen in children who have got the diagnosis later

And these children were not necessarily impulsive. They might have set their heart on something and followed through until they got it, they might have lied themselves stupid for some motivation or other, but impulsivity didn't really feature in it

Yes I am aware of this but the behaviour described is not psychopathic.

I wouldn’t even say this has anything to do with neurodiversity, let alone being a psychopath. Children throughout history have tormented and often hurt their siblings and found it amusing to make them cry. The vast majority of them have grown up into perfectly normal people. Often it’s jealousy and resentment behind it, sometimes it’s just because siblings are the nearest people around to pick on. Parents generally find it upsetting and less than ideal, but it’s well within the realms of ordinary child development. Deliberate behaviour intended to hurt somebody should be punished, obviously, but definitely not pathologised.

My mother called me a psychopath several times growing up.

I am actually autistic with adhd, pda and dyspraxia.

Could it be that she threw it enthusiastically and misread where it was going, my aim is shocking and then was embarrassed that she hurt her sister. Or that she misread it as jokey/part of the game and struggled to see it wasn't the banter of the game.

Whether you think she's a psychopath or not do not tell her that please. It stays with you forever. She will already know you think she's the worst of the 4 kids so don't add to it.

I understand OP. I genuinely started to wonder if my youngest was a psychopath. He used to genuinely delight in deliberately provoking his brother to breaking point and then would laugh and laugh. He didn’t care if his older brother whacked him as a result. He just enjoyed provoking the reaction. When I told him his brother had said he was scared of him, his face lit up in absolute delight, rather than the shame I had expected it to. His brother had not been like that at the same age. Some people on here have been judgey, but when you have a child like this, you do start to fear and wonder ‘ could they be?’

He’s older now and starting to be more empathetic and show kindness sometimes, so I am less concerned now.

Sone people here have been pretty judgey but I completely understand where you are coming from.

I work in this area.
Psychopathic Personality Disorder is caused by an extremely traumatic major event in very early childhood that takes away the main caregivers or destroys any trust in them e.g. severe child abuse of the most extreme sort.
If your child hasn't been horrifically abused as a baby/toddler, it is extremely unlikely she is going to develop PPD.
We're talking about people who survive the sort of shit you read about in the papers e.g. if Baby P had survived.
It doesn't just spontaneously develop. So unless there's a big drip feed coming, you've got nothing to worry about.

(sorry it's correct name is Anti-Social Personality Disorder but no one actually knows what you're on about when you use it).

She’s 10

Is it possible that all the teaching you are doing is creating a situation in which she constantly feels like she is not good enough. The impact on her self esteem could be why things are getting worse not better. As parents sometimes we can try too hard to correct behaviour we don't understand without really connecting with the child's experience or the what they are communicating through their behaviour. If we miss this step then any consequences or teaching are far less effective because you don't really know why the situation happened in the first place.