Is my child a psychopath?

[Cindertoffebuns]

I have 4 kids. All girls
They have adhd and we do our very best to manage this in a variety of different ways. We are very firm at home.

Today they went to a holiday club. DD 2 picked a ball up and threw it at DD 3 hurting her. Apparently this was before a game had started. She then didn’t bother to say sorry or check if she was ok ect. Just thought it would be a laugh to hurt her and run off. She is 10. Sister is 8.

Asking if she is likely a psychopath as she didn’t stop and check and she’s going into year 6 this year, that’s not normal is it.
For context she is the child that is the most mean spirited out of all of them. Always has to take things too far or ruin the day by hurting somebody.
She does have autism but can’t see this as an excuse tbh. Day 1 of the summer holidays and I could have relied on her to ruin them.
I know that sounds mean but I’m exasperated and her sisters are starting to really feel the impact of having to be around her so much.
The rest of us are so nice, why is she so mean spirited?

In the nursery I work at, you get 2yr olds who act like they have no empathy towards others. If they hurt another child (accidentally or on purpose) I would try and explain to them that their action hurt the other child, but get blank stares. It's like they just don't "get it yet". I'd point out - look, he's sad, look he's crying, and nope - no reaction. I try really hard not to label them as psychpaths, and instead put it down to a developmental stage. Some things have to be explicitly taught repeatedly, and I'd like to think that eventually they all become at least a little bit sensitive to others.

If she's autistic, you need to look at what else was going on before she threw the ball at her sister.

I'm autistic (only diagnosed in my twenties) and I always found holiday clubs to be incredibly overwhelming and overstimulating. There's normally lots of noise, lots of bright lights, lots of people talking all the time - it can actually be quite scary to be "stuck" somewhere like that with no escape.

As for checking whether she was hurt, maybe she was scared? Maybe she didn't want to get told off or see her sister in pain or upset? Maybe she felt too guilty and found it easier to run away/laugh it off than face up to what she'd done.

None of that means she's a psychopath, it just means she's struggling with being neuro-divergent in a world that's not built to accommodate her or her needs.

Psychopaths can be very manipulative and come across as nice and kind too.

It’s strange she only has issues with one of her siblings. More investigation needed here.

I'd also remember adhd kids are usually at least 3/4 years behind socially and emotionally their peers. They have big emotions.
I could survive without mine taking medication

Yes you say that she was unprovoked but could it have been that she was hugely overstimulated or made anxious by being at the club which led to the ball throwing? Has she been before and did she want to go? Does the club work with her and know her triggers? It sounds like this might not be the best option for her, or she needs some space to have quiet time and/ or a chance to opt out of certain games.

Not always

I have known children grow up to get this diagnosis without any major trauma.

I have also known 1 child in a sibling group get this diagnosis when the others are normal

Major trauma in childhood causes all sorts of problems, sure, but problems can occur without trauma too

Not alone no but I think as a regular occurrence it’s more the traits I am worried about as I am genuinely going above and beyond to try and support her.

Honestly the same thought unfortunately go through my head multiple times a day! I have a autistic & PDA ds (13) and 16yo dd and the amount of shit he puts her (and us) through daily is a joke. We too are tough on him, but the lack of care, sympathy or empathy has me thinking could he have pyschopath tendencies. Have asked the so called experts and they don't like to hear or understand

No, not a psychopath.

I have ASD and ADHD and since both conditions come with poor impulse control, you get a double whack. When I get an impulse, it’s more of a compulsion and very often completely out of my control. So I think your DD had a compulsion to throw the ball. I don’t think she intended to hurt her sister.

Also, how do you know it was unprovoked from her perspective? What also affects girls with ASD and ADHD is almost paranoid feelings of being ignored and excluded from social situations. So a typical response to this is to do something OTT to get attention.

That said, this doesn’t mean your 8yr old or anyone else needs to accept or put up with being hurt. You do need to use compassion and understanding to talk through and role play ways in which your older DD can take those impulses and redirect them in ways that do no harm.

Thing is, it might seem like she gets upset for no reason but it’ll be something. Is she able to express it when something is bothering her?

Nobody, including an actual psychiatrist, can tell you if your child is a psychopath because of one incident where she chucked something at her little sister. You are being massively over the top and dramatic about what is essentially a kid being a bit of a shit. Most kids are, at times, shits.

So a bit more digging.
Younger sister is very “likeable”. Always happy. People always comment how her smile lights up a room when she walks in.
Dd2 feels jealous and doesn’t know what to do in new situations to get people to like her and feels angry it’s so easy for DD3 so took it out on her.
Wish she could see that by being nice to DD3 she would have an easier time than by lobbing things at her.
Any suggestions ?

Have you done any courses to help you understand your children's conditions?

I have ND kids, the one who everyone presumed would be a psychopath is the same kid that when playing catch with a toddler and the toddler missed, cried for an hour because he thought he'd been a bad friend not throwing it well enough to catch, his younger brother who everyone assumed would be able rival Angel Gabriel in Angel stakes said to him, "stop crying. Ya dick". (Ever the charming empath is my DC3!)

I wonder if your daughter dislikes this particular sister, she may have absolutely no reason as to why either, she simply doesn't have that feeling of compassion towards her. Ask her if she can tell you how she feels about this DS and if it's negative, say, "OK dd, let's write a list of things we like about you and sister. And wouldn't it be lovely of you to teach DS some things off of your list that you dint think she has". Let her flex her older sister muscles and include her into bonding with sister a bit.
Her sister could be the sweetest child known to walk the planet, but her sister doesn't see that, so just let her think up ways to improve sister, but also say, "DS has this quality, I think it would be so cool if she could teach you that!".
It reads quite manipulative written down but I did similar with younger family members with undiagnosed ND but they definitely presented with it and got diagnosed in secondary school. It didn't make them the strongest bonded, but it did let them both consider the others good qualities and consider their own places to improve. Hope this makes sense.
Anyway, your kid is unlikely Paris Bennett, just frustrated x

Younger sister is very “likeable”. Always happy. People always comment how her smile lights up a room when she walks in

so….everyone says younger sister lights up the room and older sister is a psychopath

this is a difficult one to unpick isn’t it? 🙄

Sounds like you have a daughter who is struggling socially and she feels inadequate, judged and inferior so lashes out. How is a 10 year old suppose to know how to deal with these emotions. Maybe separate them into different clubs. Does she even want to go to this holiday club at 10 years old does she enjoy it?

Thank you for this insight. Can you offer any suggestions or tips on how she could deal with this?

Don’t be ridiculous OP 🙄🙄🙄🙄

She’s jealous of her sibling because her sibling receives more attention and praise for a cheerful personality that’s ultimately just a fluke. She’ll feel sadness and frustration about this. She lacks the adult emotional literacy to explain or rationalise her jealousy; she will struggle with a range emotions arising from it that she also isn’t able to express properly; and she doesn’t have any choice about having to live with and spend time with the person she is jealous of and who she thinks other people like more than they like her.

Imagine your DH brought another woman home (one who was prettier than you and considered more likeable by others) and told you that she was going to live in your house because he loved her as well as you. And that you had to love her, too, because you were all a family. I doubt you’d handle with it without a few fights. It might sound silly, but ultimately that’s essentially what parents expect of children when they bring new siblings into the family; and unlike adults, children lack the maturity and the emotional regulation to deal with their emotions or shape their reactions well.

I knew somebody would comment to this effect. Children are all different. Those were her words and not mine. Everybody makes the same comments about DD3. It’s true. She does have one of those infectious light up a room smiles. But DH and I don’t comment on it or draw attention in any way as so many people seem to and I don’t want it to be viewed as favouritism in any way. It’s not.
what she said is true though. Every school report dd3 has ever had has said the same thing. Infectious smile, lights up a room, such a delight ect. People mention it often. Of course dd2 is bound to notice.
dd3 is much less sensitive and just happy going so as a result does find it easier to get on with life. I can totally see how she would feel like that.

Sounds more like sociopathic behaviour.

So I would talk to her about her feelings before she threw the ball. Was she feeling a bit ignored? Or was she so hyper that she wasn’t really aware of anyone around her? Then go from there.

Id teach her too that say it was an impulse to throw the ball that it’s ok to throw a ball, but throw it away from people.

I’d explain ways she can get someone’s attention without going OTT in a way that may hurt them or others. (For me, at her age I’d climb something high like a tree or wall and jump off it while screaming look at me, look what I can do). Maybe agree on a signal or code word she can use with her sister so her sister can fold her into a group or go over and chat with her a minute.

Kids with autism and AHDH combined are significantly more likely to have a PDA profile IIRC. I see other posters have mentioned it already. I’m sorry to say that my daughter (diagnosed autistic but I highly suspect ADHD also) is demand avoidant and also exhibits the kind of mean-spirited behaviour you describe, always levelled at the younger sibling. It’s wearing, I know, but not psychopathy.

I was like this as a child. It was for attention. Your 10 year old is basically begging you and her family to notice her. Yeah you don't make comparisons to her face but she will get the vibe regardless.

Would you like your mother to call you a psychopath at 10 years old? Or even the feeling? Would you want to be stuck with people who don't like you 24/7?

What do you do with just her? It takes a long time to undo the damage that has been unwittingly caused, so don't expect quick results either.

Oh bless you, I haven’t read everything but you seem to be getting a hard time.

Not the same circumstances but one of my girls is significantly meaner than the other. Will always be the one I can count on to ruin a day out or hurt her sister for attention. I have also googled whether there might be something I need to help her with. When I spend alone time with her she is delightful and I think the meanness is sibling rivalry related. For completeness they are only 4.

I know people will say ‘not the same situation so not relevant’ but I do think we examine our children’s behaviour far more closely than anyone else would. Maybe have a day out just with her and see if she’s a different little girl.

Sending you love, parenting is hard x