School detentions

[Drhollyfrazier]

They just don’t sit right with me at all. Teachers don’t want to be there so why do they insist on keeping children after school? I don’t understand where the mentality comes from that they can keep children there as a punishment past when they have to be there. Also lunch time detentions. Kids can have a break which would probably refresh them for the last few hours of the day but keeping them from their friends and a break from out of the classroom is surely only going to bring out an attitude and negative mood for the rest of the day.

When I was in high school 2007-13, I was often given detention for not completing homework, pretty much every week. That’s because I was so depressed during that time I wouldn’t get any sleep all night, having panic attacks, sometimes self harming. Every subjects teacher missed the warning signs of my MH and the response was detentions.

I just think it is absolutely not the right of schools to keep kids after school hours. aibu

@Justonemorecoffeeplease it's just baffling to me that people think my child I get to chose if they suffer consequences of their actions.

Like if you show up to work late, because of bus being late ect most bosses get it. If you repeatedly show up late regardless of issues buses ect most bosses would be like ok but this happens repeatedly and you have to make other plans to ensure your reliable and show up to work on time or you will be fired and be replaced by someone who can show up on time. It's that simple really isn't it ?

Would you prefer for your kid to miss a lunch break and learn this lesson at school, or when they are adult and learn that lesson the hard way. And although mummy dearest says the rules don't apply to them, society, law enforcement, employers ect may disagree.

Ultimately your setting your kid up to be one unhappy adult imo.

I know someone who doesn't make her kid go to detention or do her homework and is actually baffled that her child isn't going to come away with any qualifications. Even though her child's life she has repeatedly enforced that education doesn't matter. It's somehow the teachers fault 🙄

Like cause and effect isn't a bloody thing. She's now getting worried that her dd doesn't look like she wants to take up work and wants to lounge around and play video games all day and "sponge off her". And I don't blame her daughter. She is exactly who her parents made her 🙃

I think people can still learn these lessons without detention etc. Most of it is just obvious.

For example, I never had to tidy or clean up after myself until I left home at 18- but I still knew I had to then because who else was going to do it?

Ive known several people who went to Summerhill where none of this happens and they are all successful functioning adults now.

Unless you’ve worked in a busy secondary then you really don’t know what you’re talking about

@Plymsoul sure. But surely it's a easier lesson for your kid to learn when they are young and have no real life consequences for this type of stuff, than say a adult who losses their ability to pay to feed themselves or house themselves.

I mean only imo but losing 30mins after school because you were repeatedly late egh annoying vs losing your job and therefore not able to feed yourself and your kids. Are not imo the same.

You can learn when your an adult, sure, but it shitty and lazy parenting if another adult is trying to help teach your kid life skills and you think nah I'm gonna shit on the adult trying to educate my child (and I refuse to do it and let life shit on them)

And if you want to raise free range children, that's fine I have no problem with that. Just don't put them into public education, home school them and expect to live with the consequences of your choices later on in life.

Personally I want my kid to be a good kid but more importantly a fully functional independent adult that contributes society that isn't so entitled to think the rules don't apply to them and learn the hard way.

Also if it is obvious- then there wouldn't be a need for detentions, would there. Everyone would be perfectly behaved

It seems obvious to me, not to kill anybody but some people need the deterrent of prison to stop them play people whack a mole and even then...

Common sense isn't that common and even the best behaved teen needs a little encouragement not to be a twit. Even adults on MN need some guidance rules not to be twits hen ( moderators on here).

Detentions aren't for the benefit of the teacher and frankly the kids who need it the most often have parents who think that their kids don't.

@namechangenacy my point was that most adults can work out that if they break the rules at work they will get sacked, they wouldn’t break the rules then be surprised they were sacked because the cause and effect is obvious.

With Summerhill being an independent school with fees ranging from £5000-£7000 a term I’d suggest it’s more than just relaxed discipline at school that helped your friends @Plymsoul I imagine they had financial backing after school too.

The reality in a comprehensive school is that not all pupils have such support. Indeed for many school is the one place where they do have routine and care. Those routines and education do need to be set within certain parameters which need to be enforced by detentions if needed.

Secondary schools are busy places with a vast range of learners. We simply can’t sit about and ‘discuss’ with students what might work for the collective good. I see about 150 different students on a full day. Do you really think those that can’t be bothered to abide by simple rules should take up most of my time? Standards, good behaviour, work ethic and consideration for others need to be modelled in schools and frankly those waffling on about how schools shouldn’t set detentions or we should just talk things through are greatly underestimating what a tough job it is to actually teach.

Yes, this is the point I was making earlier.

@Plymsoul using your own logic.

When you sign your kid up to a state school and the school has rules a book of conduct you sign up to support that school as a parent. The school can't wave a big stick at you to stop you. And sure

Sure cant the school kick your child out if you decide and say hey rules not apply to me or my child, (probably not they don't have enough time or resources to deal with that agg)

But I think it's always important to remember kids literally mimic to learn and that blueprint you show them as a child follows them into adulthood.

You really think if you have told your kid ok some rules don't apply to you, mummy will fix it. They will suddenly upon becoming a adult will go a) ah right time to reflect on my own actions and make a change or b) do what they have done their whole lives and come to you to fix it because they think the rules don't apply to them. That dynamic is symbiotic.. and not helpful for creating independent adults imo.

Some people get away with murder, it's breaking the law , but what are the chances of them doing it again if they aren't caught and punished in anyway shape or form ?
Do they feel morally bad for their actions or just fearful they might lose their liberty.

The latter should be a given but the former is a skill not every kid is taught.

Cause and effect.

Ffs tired eyes - another typo

"Sure the school cant kick your child"

I see your point, but people aren’t Pavlov’s dogs. They can employ their brains a bit more.

If you think that's the case, talk to those who regularly employ large numbers of people. Employers countrywide are lamenting the lack of soft skills in younger people. Soft skills, such as: communicating appropriately, turning up every day on time and being otherwise reliable, being organised, being able to follow a company hierarchy.

We have had many a story here of people employing young adults, having difficulties with them and suddenly having to deal with their angry parent.

So, no, common sense doesn't suddenly prevail just because someone in in a job. It takes an awfully long time to break an ingrained habit, especially if you are being encouraged to behave badly by others telling you that your boss is being ridiculous.

I often recite this, but I had a lad in my NQT year many moons ago who did as he pleased, encouraged to by his parents, in the safe knowledge that he'd have a job in dad's shop when he left school. Only, he didn't last long in dad's shop, because dad, being a businessman, ended up firing his own son for the same behaviours that school were being told to eff off about.

Parents who repeatedly undermine schools are setting their children up for failure.

@Drhollyfrazier what do you think the consequence should be for not doing homework? Or being late for lessons because they have hung out with their mates behind the science block after the bell has rung? Or should there be no consequences for these things?

I've worked in a school with C1 to C5 and if it is done consistently it does work.

Disrupt once, name on board, disrupt twice a tick, third time you are in detention and the detention is done on a rota so it doesn't clash with meetings.

I've also come across schools that do Saturday morning detentions. They are apparently a success because it inconveniences the parents, and suddenly the kids start to behave.

@BluNomad If your children attend a school with a C1 - C whatever then they will soon be at a day in isolation or a fixed term exclusion. I think them being excluded for a week might have an impact on your ability to learn.

The trouble is by the time 2 or 3 kids have individually disrupted a lesson enough to warrant the detention (which is often just a 20 minute lunchtime one), quite a bit of time can have been wasted.

Saturday morning detentions are rarely given out - unfortunately!

It’s a good job I’m not a teacher (although I’m a TA), because I would want to be The Trunchball from Matilda 🤣

Have you ever taught teenagers ?

The parents who piss me off are the MC ones who think rules are stupid or do t apply to their kids for some reason… schools are BIG and rules are there to make sure it’s not chaotic …

But what if rules are indeed stupid? Or deliberately unfair? I do agree with everything sensible, but like new uniform inventions can seriously eff off.

That's kinda the point though.

When you chose your kids school you see their rules and code of conduct. You don't have to sent them to that school if you don't agree with their rules or believe the rules towards uniform are stupid.

Don't get me wrong I think most people roll their eyes at certain school rules, but people forget they saw the rules upfront and then say it doesn't apply to MY children

@ThrallsWife If you think that's the case, talk to those who regularly employ large numbers of people. Employers countrywide are lamenting the lack of soft skills in younger people. Soft skills, such as: communicating appropriately, turning up every day on time and being otherwise reliable, being organised, being able to follow a company hierarchy.

Most of these people will have been to mainstream schools where they got detention (be that state or independent) because that’s how the vast majority of people are educated. Most parents don’t interfere if their children get detention (see this thread, 1 or 2 people vrs many who support detention)… so there must be something else going on there.

I'd like if there was an actual choice. I.e. uniform school and non-uniform school. But in reality it is - stupid uniform vs. hideous uniform.

Nd yes - being upfront would be nice. Changing rules or inventing new ones is really shitty.

Like my kids' sensible, comfortable shoes which had been fine for so far, suddenly becomming offensive because of a teeny tiny logo on them.

Whether or not you agree with the rules in place at the school your child goes to, you agreed to them by enrolling your child in the school and if you really can’t countenance it, you have the option to off roll your child and find another school or, more likely, home school.

There are plenty of things in life that may be irritating ‘rules’ but we are obliged to abide by them, or face the consequence. Parking on double yellow lines probably means you’ll be fined. The same applies to breaking the speed limit, failure to buy a train ticket, or any one of a number of things that are designed to encourage the wheels of society to run smoothly. Schools are a society too, as are workplaces. These things are intended to make organisations run more smoothly and if organisations don’t have structures and expectations, they don’t achieve what they need to.

It depends on the detention.

This school had 30 mins in silence copying out from a book in neat handwriting.

And if the C3 was issued in the morning it was the same day.

They also had a 'do now' at the start of every lesson, the students had to come in, sit down, get equipment out and then do what was on the board for 5 mins.

If the rules are stupid or unfair, you contact the school and the governors, and campaign to have the rules changed. Or your child and other pupils can have a campaign of civil disobedience (ie. boys wearing skirts to school to protest about not being allowed to wear shorts in hot weather) - but they take the risk that, if they break the rules, they have to pay the consequences.

Ds1 once managed to go a whole term without doing anything in his biology book - despite the teacher's best efforts - notes in his book etc. The first we heard of it was when the Head of Department rang me to tell me, just before half term, the following term.

He offered that ds1 could either have as many after school detentions as it took for him to copy up all the work he'd missed, or he could come in during the half term and do the copying up, because the HoD had to be in school and would supervise him. We chose the half term option because we felt it would rub the lesson in well for ds1.

It did.

That's very nice of that HOD but I don't see how this could have gone on a whole term. At DDs school she would be staying in that day in ASC detention and completing the work.