School detentions

[Drhollyfrazier]

They just don’t sit right with me at all. Teachers don’t want to be there so why do they insist on keeping children after school? I don’t understand where the mentality comes from that they can keep children there as a punishment past when they have to be there. Also lunch time detentions. Kids can have a break which would probably refresh them for the last few hours of the day but keeping them from their friends and a break from out of the classroom is surely only going to bring out an attitude and negative mood for the rest of the day.

When I was in high school 2007-13, I was often given detention for not completing homework, pretty much every week. That’s because I was so depressed during that time I wouldn’t get any sleep all night, having panic attacks, sometimes self harming. Every subjects teacher missed the warning signs of my MH and the response was detentions.

I just think it is absolutely not the right of schools to keep kids after school hours. aibu

All very well until a child is groomed by a gang and you're expecting the school to do something about it whilst you're off being busy and important.

I think being late is poor behaviour - it is disruptive to the rest of the class as the latecomer comes in, settles at their desk, gets all their stuff out - and then the teacher may have to restart their teaching for that class! I would expect a warning to the child on the first couple of occasions, but if they were persistently late, then they deserve a detention.

Turning up without the kit you need is also disruptive - the teacher is trying to explain the lesson for the day, and someone is piping up "Miss, I haven't got a pen/ruler/text book - can someone lend me one -and then either someone else has to provide the equipment they have forgotten, or they end up not being able to participate properly in that lesson. Again, I'd expect the teacher to issue a warning or two, but if the problem persists, then a detention would be appropriate.

And yes, adults don't get put in detention for forgetting stuff - but if teachers aren't allowed to issue any form of sanction for children who forget the kit they need, how is that going to help the children learn that they have to take personal responsibility for having the stuff they need?

@NeverDropYourMooncup I don’t see the link between not doing detention and being groomed by a gang.

Than you don't have much experience working in state schools. Until you do, it's probably best you leave the sanction setting to the schools that are having to deal with kids where one of the first worries, when a child is always late, misses detention, sleeps in class, doesn't bring equipment, is gang affiliation and drug dealing.

As I’ve said, this is my wheelhouse.

A child being late, missing, off site, having excess money etc are possible signs of drug involvement for sure (amongst other things), but a child being told by a parent not to do detention doesn’t necessarily leap to an involvement with drugs, there could be loads of different things going on there.

Also, being made to do detention isn’t going to stop a child from entering that life (especially since it isn’t actually a choice generally).

Detention works as a deterrent for children for whom having to stay at school an extra hour and being told off by their mum is a big thing- children living outside that protective bubble have much more serious things to worry about than being told to stay in class for an hour- they are the ones at risk of offending and exploitation.

I understand it's frustrating that in schools with C1 C2 C3 C4 etc you might end up with a kid being massively irritating with microaggressions (talking out of turn, turning around etc) that never seems to be bad enough to get a detention despite stopping learning. Such kids are cajoled/manoeuvred/given more than one chance far too often. Then your kid gets a break det as they were late that morning.
Punctuality top trumping Low-level crappy behaviour.

But actions/inactions have consequences. You don't know each individual teacher's hills they'll die on. Some will record everything as SLT expects. Some will use judgement. Some will ignore/turn a blind eye. Some will keep going, ignore latecomers, throw pens at those without and not skip a beat.

Such is life. But you know the school policy and you either go with it or pay lip service to it or pick another school. So, between my DD and I, I'll belly ache she has behaviour points for being tardy when Johnny has none for being a PITA, but she accepts the detention/lack of reward with good grace. Why? Cos she was bloody late, that's why!

As for home work, if they don't do it, write a note to the teacher. Write it in the planner. Email the staff member.
If they never do it, expect to look like a crappy parent and if your kid gets reading catch-up/break det or what have you, that's on them! (Guess what? I have a child loath to do home work as well).

You cannot do it all for them but nor should you expect the teacher to and no-one should be complaining they didn't get this or they were punished by that, if whatever should have been done wasn't done!

Exception is levelling -up.
Should speak to tutor wrt missing equipment due to £ constraints.
Genuine reason for lateness - ditto.
Most teachers know which kiddies are vulnerable and which are disorganised due to ADHD etc and who we need to keep a pencil case in school for.
Much of the time it isn't for those whose parents are protecting them from dets

Of course it's not that simple. My DS has autism and ADHD, he was regularly in detention for forgetting equipment, being late, fidgeting, interrupting/calling out. Never for bad behaviour just stuff related to his condition and they are always lunch time DTs which is so counter productive. It has taken us many meetings and many months with the school for it to be sorted and appropriate procedures put in place for him. Every time the teacher in charge of agreeing the DTs go ahead changes we go back to square one. If only I had told him to not fidget, I didn't think of telling him not to do the crime and to stop being autistic or not to let his ADHD come out 🙄

Eldest DS had 1 DT as he wore white socks, he knew he wasn't allowed but did it anyway so that was fair enough.

I am not sure they are particularly great punishments but they serve a purpose when used correctly. At my DCs school the teachers rotate every day in DT so I don't think it's a huge issue for them.

@InstantGratificationDarkPlaygroundOfMN
Oh that bloody C1 C2 ad infinitum system! They introduced it in ds school last Year, it’s not working! It’s been an absolute gift to the kids who like to disrupt lessons 😡
They get multiple warnings and nothing ever actually happens to them and meanwhile between a small group of them they ruin a whole lesson.

I’ve actually complained in writing to the headteacher, and even the kids are saying to the school council that it doesn’t work.
Im hoping something is going to change in September.

That’s what I heard. Teacher’s saying if the students don’t understand they can clear their doubts. In reality when student ask something that they didn’t understand , all get shouted back” oh you don’t know this”
so they all scared to ask the teacher. And all children are not bold enough to ask. Very very shy children also there. They say beginning of academic year if the bus is late students won’t get detention but in reality that absent was marked as late.
even children woke up 5 o clock they can go to school whenever the public transport reach the school.
I am not talking about every 15 minutes there is a bus service and children being late for school. I am talking about rural bus services and trains.

The replies suggestion lateness is bad behaviour when buses can be late etc and they need to be punished with an hours detention are honestly insane.

Buses in my area (and I live In a city) often don’t show up as that times service has been taken off due to lack of staff. No warning, it just doesn’t show up. Hardly fair to warrant an hours detention for those kids who are meaning to get that bus.

Obviously if people used their brains, I was never referring to the 16 year old boy built like a fully grown man, swearing at little miss jones the English teacher who just wants kids to read more books. 🙄

You don’t get detention for lates due to public transport at my school. Most would use common sense. A number of children would often be affected plus many of ours ring school to let the office know.

Well, they're out and about when the other kids are at school. So they're visibly vulnerable/unsupervised and can be approached gradually over time. They're doing it regularly, which means that there's slack monitoring from school, so they could be later and nobody would notice or care - perhaps being offered something, a date, a bit of company, a Costa frappuwotsit and some doughnuts would make them smile. Then they're seeing this new person they met as a friend.

'Won't you get into trouble at school for being late?' (sounding concerned). 'I can get my friend to come and pick us up and take you to school so you don't get into trouble'.

'My Mum's told them I'm not doing detentions. Says they're not doing anything that interferes with her ability to earn a living, so she won't answer when the school phones anyway'

'That's great, you've really showed them who's boss, you do whatever you like when you want to, you've got power. So your Mum's not home when you get back after school?'

'No, she's not in until about six'

'Why don't you spend the day with me and then go home just before she gets in? I've got something you can change into/lets go and get you something to wear so nobody sees you out in school uniform. Then we can meet my friends'

Your theoretical 6 foot 16 year old is of far less value to a gang than a 5 foot, 12 year old girl who thinks she's either got herself a female friend or a good looking, slightly older boyfriend just from being out and about after everybody else has gone into school on time. Far less value.

@NeverDropYourMooncup but that relies on them having gone into school late/not gone at all, not an after school detention.

You could argue leaving an hour later than everyone else adds risk because you are more likely to be alone and at certain points in the year it would be dark, but keeping them in detention isn’t going to have any specific effect if they are being groomed, except possibly adding fire to the flame of ‘they don’t understand me, they don’t care about me, I wasn’t even talking it was all Doris’etc. Gangs won’t back off because someone finishes school at 4:30 instead of 3:30.

Mum saying you can’t do detention is also not the same as mum/other points of contact not answering the phone if a kid hasn’t turned up, again it’s possible to have really shitty uninterested parents who would do both but it isn’t a forgone conclusion… you are just as likely to have a parent who says no to detention and dashes up to school the second they call because they don’t trust the school or like the school or enjoy drama or whatever.

Not turning up or going missing during the day is a totally different risk issue.

Lateness can be bad behaviour. People turning up late everyday, the ones who hang around the town vaping instead of going to school on time. Our school are well aware of buses being late and take this into account if the parents inform the school. The same can not be said for all late arrivals and the are punished as such.

I tell my kids to not waste behaviour points on shite like being late, wrong uniform, no homework etc
just do as you’re supposed to and don’t kiss off teachers or disrupt anyone else’s learning…
As for kids who are ‘depressed’ or whatever - make the school
aware, their pastoral team manage behaviour according to the child. It’s not one size fits all.

If a child is always late - there’s a reason that needs to be addressed. Their MH, their home situation might mean they need more support, or they could just be lazy or dicking around vaping, and being anti social before school…
kid in DS class is always late, and never gets detention. DS was late twice in one week, once in 18 months of school = detention.
I assume the school know something about the other kid that means he’s an exception.
my little Prince on the other hand, lost out on lunch time play and never did it again. So it worked.

Spot on.

’Well, the easiest solution is to behave in accordance with the school rules. Result: no detentions.’

The parents who piss me off are the MC ones who think rules are stupid or do t apply to their kids for some reason… schools are BIG and rules are there to make sure it’s not chaotic …

The problem is teachers are being expected to act and a higher level of vigilance than the kids own parents.

If the parents don't care about a child's MH and they live with the child, how is a teacher expected to monitor this during school term time with 30+ kids each class ? How are they more responsible than the parents... I'm just saying...

How did everyone find home schooling during lock down ? Fun for all ? Right times that by 30 and then kids knowing that they can whine to mummy and daddy about getting a detention and they will say oh don't worry about that my little cherub.. I will sort it as you frog march in and give that teacher a dressing down.

What lesson do you think your teaching your kid.

Your expecting teachers to parent, without any teeth and even then the detention has to be seen as "something you can or can't approve"... fml

If you don't want your school to discipline your kids by giving them a detention? Maybe homeschool them then. If you can do better ?

The lack of respect this country has for teachers is absolutely shocking imo (and no I'm not a teacher) and it's because the kids know their own parents don't support the teacher so mess around. I don't blame teachers leaving in droves tbh..

Anyway you reap what you sow because when little Jonny turns into adult Jonny (and is less cute) and he can't keep a job because he can't show up at work on time or gets fired because he hasn't completed his work and is lazy af and complains to you. Or just you know expects everyone else to jump in and fix bad things in his life (and you can't).
You will have caused your own special circle of hell watching your kid suffer, and it will be in part due to you. Not due to the teacher. Although undoubtedly people will blame anyone other than themselves (properly the teacher 🙄 sigh)

Anyway I said what I said 🤷‍♀️

@namechangenacy 👏

I agree

probably - typo 😒

Well, the easiest solution is to behave in accordance with the school rules. Result: no detentions.

Yep. Most school rules are not hard to obey unless a child has diagnosable behavioural issues.

Then you should home school. Seriously though are you going to call their boss at their workplace when they get a bad review or negative email? When do you draw the line.

100% agree.

Also, detentions are never given in my school for lateness due to a bus. It’s common sense. However the 5 Y10 lads or are always late after break as they view the 5 minute warning bell as not applicable to them - they will be in detention after a couple of warnings. I wonder where they get their ideas from that rules are optional? 🤔