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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this ok or is it stealing?

208 replies

Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 12:12

dm in hospital
real health issues currently suffering delerium won’t comply with nurses unless I encourage her as she is scared of them
been going to see her every day
had to organise a new phone and sim as she locked herself out of hers
been bringing her drinks and food she likes with pics calendars etc
mths hospital is 45 mins drive away and that with parking has taken its financial toll (I’m a single parent)
iv found myself today a week away from payday with almost nothing left
iv borrowed some of family but can’t ask more
I know my mum has her bank card with her and I know if she could consent she would I could then keep going for another week until I get paid. I know she will say yes now but I just worry as she lacks cApacity

im just trying to sell stuff
aibu to do this or just wait

OP posts:
Yesiamtiredactually · 16/07/2023 18:29

Oysterbabe · 15/07/2023 12:31

I don't think it's right to take money from someone without capacity and yes it would be classed as stealing.

Not necessarily. If she genuinely believes that her mother would have consented to her using some of her money then no it wouldn’t be theft and not a crime. Also I would 100% hope that my child would use my money in this situation.

Daffodilsandtuplips · 16/07/2023 18:35

I would have no problem letting my dd’s use my card in this situation OP. Keep any receipts to cover yourself but I can’t see anyone wanting to make an issue of it.
I’ve done it for my mum and my FIL, with mum it was cash she had in the house, I knew where she hid it. I needed petrol and she needed some new nighties and slippers, toiletries etc. I borrowed the money
and kept the receipts. She didn’t want the money back.

Zood · 16/07/2023 18:40

You mentioned siblings, can they help out and split the costs between you? If you are the one there they should be contributing to your parking /expenses etc if they aren't actively helping in other ways. When my parents needed support & I was picking up all sorts of additional costs due to being the nearest, we set up a cash card account & my siblings paid in by direct debit every month so I was never out of pocket & I could withdraw when I needed it. We had good trust levels so no need for receipts/explanation if spending. When they died the remaining balance went towards funeral costs.

Zood · 16/07/2023 18:48

Are you good with money? If you are & keep receipts using your mum's card in the short term should be fine. However, if you are in anyway likely to start using the card for other purchases for yourself & spend more than you should, it could really easily escalate into theft. You know yourself, if you have any doubts that you may use it what would be viewed as "inappropriate", lock it in a drawer & throw away the key, otherwise you may find yourself somewhere you don't want to go. I wish you well & hope this is just a short term issue that will be resolved soon.

ididntwanttodoit · 16/07/2023 18:49

YANBU. Tell her you are using it. Even tell another family member if you want to double down on the "openness" issue. Then pay her back later (and don't forget t tell family member that, too) Keep records.

SmudgeButt · 16/07/2023 18:49

The banks would consider it theft and could freeze your mom's account for her own protection. That's what any of us would expect if it wasn't these exact circumstances. I'm not saying you shouldn't take some cash out but do keep receipts and be ready to defend your situation. Back track on your accounting that has led to you being caught short.

You have my complete sympathy on this as we had it with my MiL & my mom too.

Luxell934 · 16/07/2023 19:01

SmudgeButt · 16/07/2023 18:49

The banks would consider it theft and could freeze your mom's account for her own protection. That's what any of us would expect if it wasn't these exact circumstances. I'm not saying you shouldn't take some cash out but do keep receipts and be ready to defend your situation. Back track on your accounting that has led to you being caught short.

You have my complete sympathy on this as we had it with my MiL & my mom too.

How would the bank consider it theft if she knows the PIN? They wouldn't know it wasn't the mother herself using the card. So don't be ridiculous.

Pudmyboy · 16/07/2023 19:17

Oysterbabe · 15/07/2023 12:31

I don't think it's right to take money from someone without capacity and yes it would be classed as stealing.

This is a good point, in legal terms, it certainly could be seen as a safeguarding issue (financial abuse), very difficult as it does sound like you have a good relationship but the hospital has to be very careful: are they keeping her things including the card? They may question the use but a lot of posters are indicating you could justify it by keeping receipts: can you get advice on how you stand if your mum currently lacks capacity?

linsey2581 · 16/07/2023 19:20

You have to have POA or guardianship in place before you start taking money from her whilst she does not have capacity. There’s a difference between what you are suggesting and your mum saying there’s my card go and take some money out. This could be classed as theft and financial abuse.
To get POA and or guardianship can take months. I know this as I have guardianship for my disabled son.

S4uk · 16/07/2023 19:46

An alternative to power of attorney is third party authority on her bank accounts.
you can access her accounts on her behalf. When she’s better, you can visit the branch (if there’s one left!) together to get it sorted.
my mum had it for my grandparents, so she could pay bills and transfer the £

Jeannie88 · 16/07/2023 19:53

My Mum and I'm sure your Mum would say to use the card, she loves you so much and you're doing a wonderful job looking after her. As you say, keep a record if you need to explain it. Close your eyes, imagine what your Mum would say to you and go with that. The fact you're pondering and worrying shows it doesn't sit easy with you so of course you aren't mercilessly stealing to buy make up etc, you are enabling yourself to be there for her. Xx

Denimdreams · 16/07/2023 19:56

Yesiamtiredactually · 16/07/2023 18:29

Not necessarily. If she genuinely believes that her mother would have consented to her using some of her money then no it wouldn’t be theft and not a crime. Also I would 100% hope that my child would use my money in this situation.

Show quote history

It absolutely would!
It's financial abuse.

Alinino124 · 16/07/2023 19:56

Would you think her mother would rather her not visit then ?????

Thosepeskyseagulls · 16/07/2023 20:07

Take £100 for petrol and parking. Tell the rest of your family you are doing this and leave her a note.

Kaiserchief · 16/07/2023 20:26

I wouldn’t. I have a credit card for emergencies, i’d use that if I ran out of money.

MumblesParty · 16/07/2023 20:41

I would use it. I know with absolute certainty that my Mum would want me to, as I would with my own kids. You’re just covering the additional costs you’ve incurred due to her illness. It’s not as if you’re buying a new TV and some fancy shoes!!
Those who say they wouldn’t clearly don’t have as good a relationship with their mum.

BooneyBeautiful · 16/07/2023 20:46

My adult DD has a savings account which I opened in her name and I put in £10 a month to cover this type of scenario. I have had two major health issues in the last 18 years, so after the first one I wanted to make sure she had access to money in an emergency, either to do with visiting me in hospital etc or if there was an urgent problem to do with my home. I should really get a POA, so that's something I need to think about.

JudgeRudy · 16/07/2023 21:04

How difficult for you. My local hospital offers a weekly parking pass that is considerably cheaper but that's not helping atm. I'm guessing your mum has a UTI or similar so your presence will be really appreciated by the ward staff. If someone is a bit 'puggled' yhey can become suspicious and frightened.
Unfortunately I don't have say advice that will help atm however I suggest when your mum is well again you sort out legal power of attorney. There's a lot of misunderstanding around this but it s perfectly OK to set it up now. It will only be initiated if your mum is unable to make decisions for herself eg yes Blur, take a few quid out of my account for travel/visits.
The likelihood of anyone finding out (should you go ahead) is low and presumably your mum has shared her PIN.....but if she lacks mental capacity atm it could lead to Safeguarding investigations.
Personally I'd take the money but I'm a risk taker by nature. I'm reluctant to advise someone else to though!

Original poster
Blurred4 · 16/07/2023 21:05

BooneyBeautiful · 16/07/2023 20:46

My adult DD has a savings account which I opened in her name and I put in £10 a month to cover this type of scenario. I have had two major health issues in the last 18 years, so after the first one I wanted to make sure she had access to money in an emergency, either to do with visiting me in hospital etc or if there was an urgent problem to do with my home. I should really get a POA, so that's something I need to think about.

This is a good idea. I will do for my dc.

thanks for advice everyone in the end I managed to borrow the money. I would have felt very iffy using the card in the end as although I know she would abs does say yea I do not think she truly understands and it felt wrong hence my posting. Either way I have blocked her cards now anyway as I was worried they had been stolen.

hoping this whole nightmare ends soon

OP posts:
Lougle · 16/07/2023 22:05

@Blurred4 I'm quite worried that lots of people have told you it's ok to use your Mum's card. It isn't, even with her permission. If she gives you the PIN she is breaking the terms of her banking agreement and if you use the card as if you are her, you are also breaking the rules.

When your Mum is better, she can ask the bank to give you third party access to her account to protect her in this sort of situation. Then you'd get your own card to access her account.

I'm glad they've kept your Mum's belongings safe.

mylifestory · 16/07/2023 22:50

Speak to the hospital security, they shd be able to give u day passes to park for free even if u have to go and get them everyday, I've never known a hospital not do this

Stopcomplainingandsortit · 17/07/2023 00:34

I hope that if this ever happened to me, I would have someone as caring and dedicated as you are looking after me!! I hope you are managing to take a little time to yourself every day. Just to process whats happening and take a breath!!

Beverlybeier · 17/07/2023 04:26

Theft means that your intention is to permanently deprive the owner, if you keep receipts and offer to pay the money back either when your mum is better or when you are paid i would be surprised if it would be viewed as theft. In these circumstances I wouldn't consider it immoral either and know as a parent I would want my children to do what you suggest, and I know my mum would me too. I suppose that depends on how you and your mum are and you know that yourself.

Beverlybeier · 17/07/2023 05:36

Under the theft act 1968 theft is defined as dishonestly appropriating property of another with the intention of permanently depriving them of the property. The act states it is not dishonest if you believe permission would have been given if they had known about it. Which you believe your mum would have done and it is not your intention to permanently deprive her of the money therefore it is not theft. Morally I wouldn't be concerned either

ZebraD · 17/07/2023 05:51

If you use your mums money, keep receipts and journal what the money was for. Perhaps ask another relative to help.
get power of attorney quickly is another option.

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