Is this ok or is it stealing?

[Blurred4]

dm in hospital
real health issues currently suffering delerium won’t comply with nurses unless I encourage her as she is scared of them
been going to see her every day
had to organise a new phone and sim as she locked herself out of hers
been bringing her drinks and food she likes with pics calendars etc
mths hospital is 45 mins drive away and that with parking has taken its financial toll (I’m a single parent)
iv found myself today a week away from payday with almost nothing left
iv borrowed some of family but can’t ask more
I know my mum has her bank card with her and I know if she could consent she would I could then keep going for another week until I get paid. I know she will say yes now but I just worry as she lacks cApacity

im just trying to sell stuff
aibu to do this or just wait

I hadn’t even thought of that

YANBU X

i don’t want anything for anything iv alrasdy paid for just to borrow money to see her this next week until I get paid

You definitely need to keep receipts but really it shouldn’t be done in any case. Using someone’s ATM card while they lack capacity is probably illegal and it will cause problems in your family when it comes to light. Are you accessing her money for her benefit - really? You should get family agreement then.

Actually if this came to our attention it would be our business, not in ops case but we have had patients carers come in before etc with say cans of coke the patient has asked for, for patient to notice £50 gone from their account.

We don’t just act in physical and mental health needs, we treat patients holistically and if something like that arose as a safeguarding concern then we’d act on it and report it

@Blurred4 Just take her card and get some money fgs , you are the one who knows your mum and I’m sure she would rather see you this week than have money in her bank . Do not mention it to anyone and if the hospital has an ATM get it from there , then take the card away for safe keeping .

Same. My parents would expect and want me to do this.

Keeping a record is a good idea. Date, shop used in or amount withdrawn, what spent on etc.

Same, my Mum would have absolutely wanted this, and I would want my dds to do this if I was the Mum in this situation.

These are expenses are all related to your mothers care though aren't they? So i cant see how they could be considered theft regardless of whether she can consent or not right now. If you were to not spend money she would have no visitors, no phone and no snacks and would not comply with nurses to the detriment of her health.

i'm sorry to hear your story OP, must be very stressful esp as a single parent.

Of course it's not stealing. You're caring for her and it's left you financially short. I'm quite sure she wouldn't want this for you.

If it was either of my DC Id expect them to use my card.

I'd do it don't tell the hospital staff though because they'll be twattish about it.

I don't know if this has been said already, OP but lack of capacity is decision specific. So your mum may lack capacity to understand what meds she is taking , for example , but that doesn't mean she doesn't understand and can't consent to helping out financially in this situation. One of the nurses or a doctor or the hospital social.worker would be able to assess her capacity in this situation if needed. Like others have said, if you are transparent in what you are using her money for and why you should be fine. Professionals often say people lack capacity, but you can always ask.them.what they mean by this. Good luck, it's not easy.

I'm a mum of adult children. I'd be annoyed if they didn't use my debit card in these circumstances.

I know with 100% certainty that my mum would want me to do this. Infact, I can imagine her being pretty annoyed once recovered if she found out that the reason I hadn’t been visiting was because I couldn’t afford to. I say do it. It’s a one off, it’s short term and it’s for her benefit.

My DM would want me to do this (and I'd want my own DC to do it). If it's the difference between you being able to visit or leaving her alone, it's in her best interests as she really needs you there. As others have said, go ahead and just make sure you keep the receipts. You sound like a lovely daughter.

That's fine, but you should still keep a record of your expenses in car if any challenge. Saying you're borrowing from her, sounds wrong. What you're actually doing is withdrawing the money to cover your expenses for the coming week, otherwise you can't see her.

I can't believe that some people here think it's better that your mum doesn't get to see you for a week, then for you to withdraw some expenses from her account so that she can.

Then OP def do not say anything to the hospital staff.

And absolutely remove the ATM card from your mother's room. If your mother told anyone else her pin code, anyone could take money from her account.

BTW Do you have any siblings? Father? I would make sure to say it to them and keep receipts. If it is just you and your mother and you have a good relationship, then do what you need to do to keep visiting her. However, think longterm because your mother's money won't last for long if you 'borrow' for more than you need to for her personal care and wellbeing (and I include your parking expenses as part of her personal wellbeing).

I wouldn’t do it for a number of reasons, the bank could class it as theft/fraud, as you are not the owner of the bank account/card. You do not have POA. I would urge you to get this in place, it will make things a lot easier should your mum be incapacitated in future

Hospital car parking is very expensive, I agree.

What I would suggest is using a p&r to get to the hospital, this will be cheaper than the parking closet if you are spending a lot of time with your mum,or if you are fit enough, park on the street free, as close as you can to the hospital.

Bless you, this is so sad. I don't think any Mum would want to see their child struggling. As your Mum begins to recover, I can only imagine she'll be distraught if she knows how difficult this period has been for you financially and that she could have helped, but wasn't able to at the time.

I would therefore certainly use Mum's card to enable you to carry on caring for her - I'm pretty sure it will make both of you more settled in the coming weeks/months. If you have siblings or other close family members, have they offered any ideas or opinions?

I have my two elderly parents now living with us and we have appointed Power of Attorneys between myself and my brother. Nobody likes to have to think about upcoming difficult times, but sorting these things out whilst everyone is still able to make informed decisions I hope will make the pathway ahead a little easier for all concerned. I would definitely recommend it once your Mum is over this bump.

Wishing you all the very best and hope Mum recovers well.

I wouldn’t tell the nurse. Do you have siblings?

This whole "she lacks capacity" thing drives me nuts - professionals bandy the term around without explaining exactly what it means.

"Capacity" is dependent on the decision being made and the immediate circumstances. Your mum has been deemed as lacking "capacity" to do something specific, not everything. If she is capable of understanding what you are asking (to use her money to enable your visits), capable of deciding whether she wants you to do this or not, and can communicate her decision to you then she has capacity to make that decision. I appreciate she may not be able to do this, but it could be that she is. Check out the Mental Capacity Act (and I'd also be questioning anyone who says she lacks capacity on exactly they are assessing her as lacking capacity to do).

I would also say you are close to the individual and know that this is what she would have wanted, and what you are proposing is in her best interests.

I also can't believe anyone is going to bat an eyelid. So I would do it without hesitation, just keep a record and focus on getting your mum better.

I would do it, it's short term, your mum offered you money previously so she obviously doesn't want you to be short

Keep receipts so you can prove the spend later.

Hope you manage to get her phone unlocked. And best wishes to your mum, hope she is better soon.

Please don’t tell the hospital staff. Your mum offered you money to cover your expenses. You didn’t think you needed it then but you do now

it was offered it’s not theft

absolutely take the money for the costs you’ve already incurred and use the card for everything going forward and just keep the receipts

I know my own mum would be upset thinking I was out of pocket for anything. Hope your mum gets better soon

Ya actually now I think about it I do recall that. She has been consistent in this she’s the sort of mum that’s always trying to give me money for stuff anyway. I know she will be ok with it it just doesn’t feel right as she is so confused. If I wasn’t down to my last £10 I wouldn’t ask. I don’t have siblings.
mom going to ask my aunt for a loan before I resort to this anyway just in case
so do you mean I coikd ask if they can assess whether she can consent to this?

Do nor let the nurses know OP - I was a hospital nurse for 29 plus years and ir would wave red flags. They would be obliged to report as they have no way od knowing if you are acting in the interests of the patient. It's illegal. Just do it if you are confident family won't makw an issue, and you keep receipts.