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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is this ok or is it stealing?

208 replies

Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 12:12

dm in hospital
real health issues currently suffering delerium won’t comply with nurses unless I encourage her as she is scared of them
been going to see her every day
had to organise a new phone and sim as she locked herself out of hers
been bringing her drinks and food she likes with pics calendars etc
mths hospital is 45 mins drive away and that with parking has taken its financial toll (I’m a single parent)
iv found myself today a week away from payday with almost nothing left
iv borrowed some of family but can’t ask more
I know my mum has her bank card with her and I know if she could consent she would I could then keep going for another week until I get paid. I know she will say yes now but I just worry as she lacks cApacity

im just trying to sell stuff
aibu to do this or just wait

OP posts:
CecilyP · 15/07/2023 12:42

GeneJeanie · 15/07/2023 12:38

Do you have (financial) power of attorney? Has she had a best interests decision?

If not, it is something to be done when she recovers. I think you should take out the money; I would want DS to do so if I was in that position.

Original poster
Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 12:42

She’s also locked herself out of her phone and now it’s security locked! Any ideas on how to deal with that?

OP posts:
LemonsOnTheMelons · 15/07/2023 12:42

What phone is it?

Original poster
Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 12:43

iPhone
she can’t really remember or say her Apple ID either

OP posts:
JustToBeMe · 15/07/2023 12:44

Oysterbabe · 15/07/2023 12:31

I don't think it's right to take money from someone without capacity and yes it would be classed as stealing.

You have any personal experience of this Oysterbabe?
I hope not.
However you seem to be suggesting the op should be out of pocket when trying to tie up any loose ends in the long run?

I have, when my Dad died, mum needed money to pay for taxi fares to and from hospital & funeral expenses etc
She took a sum of money out of Dads account to pay for any expenses that occurred.

GeneJeanie · 15/07/2023 12:44

Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 12:40

I don’t think so? This is a very new situation
I do have consent in my mums housing and the hospital though as she gave that

Show quote history

Without further info I think you’d be on dodgy grounds.

Why do you think she lacks capacity for this decision?

Do you know your mother’s pin?

x2boys · 15/07/2023 12:44

Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 12:40

I don’t think so? This is a very new situation
I do have consent in my mums housing and the hospital though as she gave that

Show quote history

Lasting power of attorney is a legal.thing me and my sister have it for our parents should they ever lose capacity but it has to.be organised before a person losers capacity it wss done through a solicitor .

Moneynewpence · 15/07/2023 12:44

euff · 15/07/2023 12:40

Yes its technically wrong but anyone looking into it would weigh it up and see it as in her best interests whilst she lacks capacity at this time. I say this having worked in adult social care. There's a massive difference in people doing what you intend and people taking money to benefit themselves. I would look into formalising things asap if she is losing capacity or has frequent episodes where she lacks capacity.

Good advice

GeneJeanie · 15/07/2023 12:47

Why do you need to get in to her phone?

What other relatives need to be considered?

(With respect I don’t think it is relevant what other mothers would wish in a similar situation).

Iwasafool · 15/07/2023 12:50

The phone and sim must have cost something, keep the receipts and "claim" that money. In fact any expenses should be things you can claim in my opinion e.g. parking, extras you bring her than she needs/wants. It is lovely if family can afford to do that sort of thing for a sick relative but the fact is you can't, your mum needs you and needs those things.

itsmylife7 · 15/07/2023 12:51

Don't discuss with any Nurse or Doctor or your putting them in a difficult position.

They can't give you permission to use her card, they may refer it to safeguarding...say nothing to them.

As a Mother , if I was in her position I'd have no issue with what you've decided.

Keep receipts and I how your Mum improves very soon.

CorpusCallosum · 15/07/2023 12:53

I really hope her delirium is temporary and she regains capacity after this episode. You're doing brilliantly for her so when she's lucid again get things formalised with an LPA for her finances, and her health and well-being if she wants. That way you're not in this situation again, and she should be reassured that you'd be the decision maker in her affairs rather than a social worker who doesn't know her or the courts.

You can do it online or print out the paper documents. Your mum will have to pay to register the documents but it's so worth it 🩵

www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney

Housekeeperbatcocoa · 15/07/2023 12:53

Oysterbabe · 15/07/2023 12:31

I don't think it's right to take money from someone without capacity and yes it would be classed as stealing.

Using someone's card to buy items for them isn't stealing.

ThreeLittleDots · 15/07/2023 12:54

See if you can be added as an additional cardholder for her bank, going forward.

saraclara · 15/07/2023 12:55

I'd definitely list what you've had to spend, keep receipts if possible, and then transfer the money. Petrol and parking definitely, then of the other stuff, decide what you would normally have bought as a gift for someone in hospital, and what you've actively had to buy because of her condition, and add the latter to the list.

She tried to give you money. She doesn't want you out of pocket. And she absolutely wouldn't want you in debt.

continentallentil · 15/07/2023 12:55

It’s fine - it’s expenses

Just keep a record of everything, commit it to email and let her have a copy.

You might as well say she’s stealing from you as you are back rolling her right now.

No one is stealing, it’s just life.

caringcarer · 15/07/2023 12:56

The amount you need to take will be relatively small to cover travel and parking. If she has agreed already I would mention it to the nurse just to cover yourself then borrow your Mum's card to pay for parking. Most machines allow card payments for parking in hospitals. Also use her card for fuel. Then these payments will show up on your Mum's bank statement and she can see how much was spent and what was on. If she tells you her pin number write it down so you don't forget it. Once she is better ask her to do the lasting Power of Attorney in case of future illness. Two of my sisters who live closest to my Mum had that and it meant when she was very ill and we moved into her house to care for her they could use her card to buy shopping and any bits she wanted. I hope your Mum gets well soon.

Thebirdhouse · 15/07/2023 12:56

Readyplayerthr33 · 15/07/2023 12:26

Why don’t you use her card to buy the stuff she needs? Instead of your own money.

Even if, for some odd reason, adult social services got involved, they wouldn’t look at that as unreasonable. You’re allowed to do that. Keep your receipts. Just take back the money it is costing you to look after her etc.

Yes. Do this.

continentallentil · 15/07/2023 12:57

Oysterbabe · 15/07/2023 12:31

I don't think it's right to take money from someone without capacity and yes it would be classed as stealing.

Not if the OP keeps a record of her expenses. It’s expenses. Don’t be daft.

Thebirdhouse · 15/07/2023 12:59

If she has agreed already I would mention it to the nurse just to cover yourself then borrow your Mum's card to pay for parking

Why on earth would the OP mention this to the nurse. The nurse is there to take care of patient's physical and mental medical needs. She has absolutely nothing to do with finances and it is none of her business whatsoever. I'd have thought it was riskier for the staff to know there was an ATM card/cash in the OP's parents room at all.

Original poster
Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 13:02

GeneJeanie · 15/07/2023 12:44

Without further info I think you’d be on dodgy grounds.

Why do you think she lacks capacity for this decision?

Do you know your mother’s pin?

Show quote history

Yes I know the pin
she lacks capacity as she has been assessed as lacking capacity due to the delirium

OP posts:
BlackFlyChardonnay · 15/07/2023 13:03

Use her card to pay for parking and the food, just keep receipts.

I was in a situation visiting a relative daily and sometimes twice daily in hospital and had been paying for parking each time, at say £3.50 a go. Literally the last week she was in, I learnt that there was a weekly ticket where you could park as long as you liked in a 7 day period for £7. It wasnt advertised on the signage, and I only found out after moaning to a nurse friend. Check if you have this option too.

Original poster
Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 13:04

GeneJeanie · 15/07/2023 12:47

Why do you need to get in to her phone?

What other relatives need to be considered?

(With respect I don’t think it is relevant what other mothers would wish in a similar situation).

I don’t need to she doesn’t, so she can ring people and access all her things
it will likely also help jog her memory about things

OP posts:
Original poster
Blurred4 · 15/07/2023 13:04

She does I mean

OP posts:
User5653218 · 15/07/2023 13:04

It's not stealing. Use the money to cover your extra expenses in visiting your mum. Keep receipts if it makes you feel better.
I hope your mum improves. Making that journey every day must be hard.

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