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Not being "feminine" does not make me any less female

300 replies

orangeleavesinautumn · 14/07/2023 07:36

I have no boobs, short hair, men's clothes, no make up, very little jewellery etc.

But I am 100% female.

So don't ask me my pronouns. You can see I am a woman

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 14/07/2023 19:48

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 19:44

And yet you’ve had many encounters where people ask if you want to be referred to as ‘her’ or ‘him’.
It doesn’t seem like it’s all that clear. I’ve never been asked for my pronouns or called “sir” even from a distance. I don’t know anyone else this happens to either.

I'm glad it's not just me this has never happened to.

Viviennemary · 14/07/2023 19:54

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 19:44

And yet you’ve had many encounters where people ask if you want to be referred to as ‘her’ or ‘him’.
It doesn’t seem like it’s all that clear. I’ve never been asked for my pronouns or called “sir” even from a distance. I don’t know anyone else this happens to either.

Obviously its a problem as you feel you need to raise it here. Nobody has asked me for my pronouns if they did I would just answer my preference. Why does it need to be a problem.

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 19:57

Viviennemary · 14/07/2023 19:54

Obviously its a problem as you feel you need to raise it here. Nobody has asked me for my pronouns if they did I would just answer my preference. Why does it need to be a problem.

I would find it very intrusive because it would feel as if they were asking me for my gender identity when I don't have one. My preference is for them to use the pronouns associated with my sex and not ask me. My sex is obvious.

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 20:00

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 19:44

And yet you’ve had many encounters where people ask if you want to be referred to as ‘her’ or ‘him’.
It doesn’t seem like it’s all that clear. I’ve never been asked for my pronouns or called “sir” even from a distance. I don’t know anyone else this happens to either.

I've been called sir, by someone up close when giving my obviously female name with an obviously female voice. I am 5ft 5 with breasts.

TheOrigRights · 14/07/2023 20:01

OP says In the last few months I have been asked my pronouns at medical appointments, at support groups and on training days.

Fair enough. I have been fortunate enough not to need any medical care recently, apart from the dentist. He just calls me Orig.
There was a situation at a blood donor session where a man was asked if he could be pregnant (I think I remembering that correctly), so we shall see what happens when I next donate blood. I last tried to donate a few months ago and no one asked me there. IIRC I think the above situation was in Scotland so maybe it's different there (I am in England).

Likewise I don't attend any support groups. I think I'd avoid any which asked for my pronouns.

Are training days through work?

Viviennemary · 14/07/2023 20:02

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 19:57

I would find it very intrusive because it would feel as if they were asking me for my gender identity when I don't have one. My preference is for them to use the pronouns associated with my sex and not ask me. My sex is obvious.

Then just tell them that. Then they will know. Whynis it an issue.

Glwysen · 14/07/2023 20:04

Asking for pronouns can also reinforce gender stereotypes (my daughter is asked a lot because she wears trousers, my son wears trousers and is never asked), this all feeds into a narrative that boys wear trousers

see also some of the comments above about not wearing make up!

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 20:04

Viviennemary · 14/07/2023 20:02

Then just tell them that. Then they will know. Whynis it an issue.

It's embarrassing and unnecessarily draws attention to the person, especially if not everyone is being asked.

LittleEsme · 14/07/2023 20:06

orangeleavesinautumn · 14/07/2023 07:36

I have no boobs, short hair, men's clothes, no make up, very little jewellery etc.

But I am 100% female.

So don't ask me my pronouns. You can see I am a woman

Well said OP.
Not that it should ever need saying.

But, I hear you.

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 20:06

If they wouldn't ask a woman with long hair, makeup and wearing a dress then they shouldn't ask a woman with short hair, no makeup and in trousers, it's just rude.

Viviennemary · 14/07/2023 20:06

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 20:04

It's embarrassing and unnecessarily draws attention to the person, especially if not everyone is being asked.

Yes I understand that. Either everyone should be asked or nobody. I think I get where you are coming from.

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 20:06

Why is it only the posters who are “obviously female” who’ve been called sir/him/ asked to confirm their pronouns?

You’ve never once considered it’s maybe not so obvious?

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 20:09

Viviennemary · 14/07/2023 20:06

Yes I understand that. Either everyone should be asked or nobody. I think I get where you are coming from.

Thanks, if everyone was asked I'd just feel uncomfortable, if I was singled out for how I present then that would be much worse.

orangeleavesinautumn · 14/07/2023 20:10

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 20:06

Why is it only the posters who are “obviously female” who’ve been called sir/him/ asked to confirm their pronouns?

You’ve never once considered it’s maybe not so obvious?

it is completely obvious.

I have a woman's face, a woman's voice, a woman's hands and feet, a woman's shape ( apart from the no boobs) a woman's height, a female name,

you tell me how it would not be as obvious with me as it is with you

OP posts:
Follie · 14/07/2023 20:10

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 20:06

Why is it only the posters who are “obviously female” who’ve been called sir/him/ asked to confirm their pronouns?

You’ve never once considered it’s maybe not so obvious?

How is having gg/h cup breasts not being obviously female?

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 20:17

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 20:06

Why is it only the posters who are “obviously female” who’ve been called sir/him/ asked to confirm their pronouns?

You’ve never once considered it’s maybe not so obvious?

I'm 5ft 5 with a feminine face and sound like Bernadette from big bang theory.

Verv · 14/07/2023 20:17

Peacoffee · 14/07/2023 20:06

Why is it only the posters who are “obviously female” who’ve been called sir/him/ asked to confirm their pronouns?

You’ve never once considered it’s maybe not so obvious?

Ive been asked.
Ive got F cup breasts.
They are obvious.

The reason ive been asked is because there are so many women with obviously female body shapes, face shapes, and breasts who are identifying as men.

Moneynewpence · 14/07/2023 20:19

orangeleavesinautumn · 14/07/2023 07:36

I have no boobs, short hair, men's clothes, no make up, very little jewellery etc.

But I am 100% female.

So don't ask me my pronouns. You can see I am a woman

Yeah, no trans person I have ever met, spoken to or read would say otherwise. You're fighting the wrong enemy.

BathroomOnTheRight · 14/07/2023 20:28

Moneynewpence · 14/07/2023 20:19

Yeah, no trans person I have ever met, spoken to or read would say otherwise. You're fighting the wrong enemy.

Where did OP mention trans people?

Moneynewpence · 14/07/2023 20:39

"Pronouns". C'mon, quit the disingenuous commenting.

orangeleavesinautumn · 14/07/2023 20:50

Viviennemary · 14/07/2023 19:54

Obviously its a problem as you feel you need to raise it here. Nobody has asked me for my pronouns if they did I would just answer my preference. Why does it need to be a problem.

why is it a problem? Because the question is offensive, it is making the assumption that I collude with the fascist anti-woman political ideology that promotes the whole pronouns crap. That is why it is a problem.

The question "what are your pronouns" is offensive

OP posts:
BathroomOnTheRight · 14/07/2023 20:53

Moneynewpence · 14/07/2023 20:39

"Pronouns". C'mon, quit the disingenuous commenting.

Pronouns are asked by/used by many, many people, not just trans people. You are being disingenuous trying to link the two.

EmeraldFox · 14/07/2023 21:22

BathroomOnTheRight · 14/07/2023 20:53

Pronouns are asked by/used by many, many people, not just trans people. You are being disingenuous trying to link the two.

Nothing to do with trans people, the people who have asked me did not appear to be trying to pass as the opposite sex, and neither was I.

RatatouilleAndFeta · 14/07/2023 21:49

Yep.

electriclight · 14/07/2023 21:50

"Or if they've half a brain, they might wonder if she's just a woman who doesn't want to be bound by anachronistic gender stereotypes about how women should appear."

Yeah they'd be wondering that too. So they'd ask, to check, out of politeness.

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