Does anyone ever feel sorry for MIL’s?

[MrsPPP]

I am a Mother to all boys and am nowhere near being a Grandmother or having a daughter in law, so me asking this is nothing to do with my personal situation right now, but it definitely makes me worry for the future.

I see so many posts about imposing MIL’s etc…. Usually in these posts, OP is female, raved about what a blessing her Mother has been and then rants about DH’s family being imposing or coming round to visit too often.
Are DH’s family not equal? Are they not also Grandparents?

I totally understand that this question is generalised and that some people will have valid reasons (abuse, alcohol issues etc).

I just hope that any future DIL of mine will accept that two sets of loving grandparents is surely better for the children. Also, who doesn’t want extra help?

Also @IkeaMeatballGravy favouritism doesnt meet a threshold of abuse. I adore my grandmother even though she quite clearly has her favourite grandchildren and it’s not me. She’s closer to a couple of my cousins. I accept that. Yes sometimes i think it’s a bit rubbish that she’s so obvious about it, but it’s not the same as a parent,, It hasnt caused me any lasting damage and I know she loves me too and am very grateful for the relationship we have nonetheless.

Who on this thread has advocated cutting off a MIL entirely? There's a huge difference between having boundaries (eg no MIL in the delivery room, no solo overnights until the baby is however old). I don't believe anyone has recommended going NC except in cases of abuse.

All this thread is saying is that mothers get to decide what boundaries they feel are healthiest for their own baby.

Some of the discussions have been specifically about newborns. Newborns don't need anyone except their mum, yet there are always threads about MILs demanding access (and often unsupervised access) to newborns and abusing women who have just given birth as "selfish" for not treating their own baby like a toy to be passed around.

I, as well as other posters, pointed out that if MILs refuse to be civil or build relationships with their DILs then they should look at their own sons to facilitate the grandchild relationship, not the woman they've been hostile to or disinterested in up till that point.

If you have a bad relationship with both your son and your DIL then something has clearly gone wrong.

I'm NC with my mother in law, I have tried to make an effort with her but she favours my SIL's children. I had to end contact when one of my DCs got hurt in her care because she decided to take on my SILs at the last minute and stopped watching mine properly. She hadn't had my DCs over for weeks at that point (SIL's 3x a week) and we had asked her to babysit on that occasion months prior. I am sure to MIL's friends and DH's side of the family I am the nasty DIL who keeps her DGCs away from her.

Read my post again and decide if you have enough context to judge me as disgusting. Do you really think it is acceptable to stop looking after the children you have agreed to take on because the golden grandchildren are present? The accident would not have happened if she was looking after just my children. You decided you had enough 'context' in that post to decide that I must be the one in the wrong, yet when I fill in more detail you decide you don't have enough context to judge my MIL?

You have said that the grandparent relationship is important, so why are you coming to the defence of grandmothers who only make an effort to have a relationship with one set of grandchildren? It may not have done you any harm, but it is scientifically proven that favouring one child over another does both children harm. It was causing harm to my children because they were beginning to notice and get upset and question why they are not good enough for MIL. So yes favouritism is abusive to children, it's damaging to thier self esteem.

That post was meant for @Tandora

On MN, I read about a lot of fractious relationships with MILs. In real life, I have loads of friends who have really great relationships with their MILs - in some cases better than with their actual mothers.

Problem is, you're not going to see many threads started on here about how wonderful a mil is, people generally use these threads to have a rant and a moan so there's always going to be more negative ones

but it is scientifically proven that favouring one child over another does both children harm

when a parent or primary caregiver does this it causes children harm. Your MIL is not your children’s primary caregiver, it won’t cause them any harm at all. It’s perfectly normal for extended family members to have different levels of relationship that vary in closeness, that’s life.

You decided you had enough 'context' in that post to decide that I must be the one in the wrong, yet when I fill in more detail you decide you don't have enough context to judge my MIL

as above, I responded to your first post where you said you had cut your MIL off completely for an accident. I said that was awful to cut a MIL off for an accident- I made a judgement based on the evidence you provided .
I didn’t reply further after you said it was actually repeated harm being caused to your child, because I didn’t see the point in getting into a row about your personal circumstances which I obviously know nothing about . If your children always have accidents in MIL’s care, then I accept why you wouldn’t want MIL looking after the children unsupervised (although I still don’t understand why you would have to cut their relationship off completely).
TBH I don’t fully trust your narrative, given your first post and the focus on blame over an accident and accusations of favouritism - it sounds petty and jealous, but as I said , I don’t know your circumstances, so there isn’t really a need for me to comment.

It’s perfectly normal for extended family members to have different levels of relationship that vary in closeness, that’s life.

If you believe that, why are you on here chastising women for having a poor relationship with thier MILs?

TBH I don’t fully trust your narrative, given your first post and the focus on blame over an accident and accusations of favouritism - it sounds petty and jealous, but as I said , I don’t know your circumstances, so there isn’t really a need for me to comment.

No there really was no need for you to comment. You may think my actions are disgusting based on your own prejudices, but I am doing the best for my DCs in very sad circumstances.

Your son's your son til he takes a wife; your daughter's your daughter all her life, as my DM says. I don't know yet, because I only have one son, and he's yet to have a relationship that lasts longer than months.

If you believe that, why are you on here chastising women for having a poor relationship with thier MILs

I don’t think DIL’s need to have a close relationship with their MIL’s, I do think they should be willing to facilitate their children to build a relationship with their grandparents and vice versa (except in extreme circumstances/ cases of abuse etc) - that’s the only point I’ve made.

No there really was no need for you to comment

you were the one who brought your circumstances into it and invited them to be part of the conversation. If you are doing your best for your children, you don’t need the approval of a random stranger on the internet. I of course accept that I know nothing of your situation beyond what you have shared.

peace x

I was very fond of my MIL, we got on well and liked each other, and I was with my SIL to be the last people to spend time with her.

Some people here are looking at this theoretically. Others are applying it to their own specific situations.
Without specific context any DIL who declares her right to gatekeep her child's relationship with that child's family, based upon her own opinion of how nice her MiL has been to her, is going to sound extremely high handed.
The power of the DiL to dictate her baby's relationships is a matter of fact that doesn't need stating to most MiL, so to keep ramming home how little MiLs matter, how they have no rights, how they'd better keep the mum on side or else.. is going to get the backs up of the many MILs who don't deserve to be treated in such a dismissive and disrespectful manner.
Most of us are fully aware our DiL could excercise a great deal of power over us if she so choose. We also know from experience that just because women are DiL not MiL it doesn't mean they will be nice reasonable people.
If we are very unlucky, we could be a text book perfect MiL and she may still dislike us. In that regard we are at her mercy. We know this already.
Some people on the thread are clearly responding with their own MIL in mind which give context to the comments. But without that and applied as a general principle, the declarations of power from DiL are a little distasteful.

I really liked my mother in law when I was married. Liked her more than my own mother actually!! The difference was MIL didn't give advice or push to 'help' but regularly offered help. I remember baby shitting out her nappy and all over her clothes and MIL took the clothes scrubbed the poop out and gave them back before our visit was over- she chose to do that over holding the baby. My mother would want the 'nice' hold the baby and would never have even thought to help with dirty washing. My mother is always giving advice which is actually criticism of what I'm doing.

If you want to be a good MIL. compliment your DIL. genuinely not superficial. Offer help in a way that can be turned down without pressure. DONT GIVE ADVICE UNLESS ASKED. And consider how to support with things like washing and housework when/if grandchildren are tiny rather than turning up and expecting to have hit drinks and biscuits provided while you cook over baby and ruin nap time.

I do have a daughter but she apparently doesn't want kids. So maybe my grandchildren will only be from my sons. I'm like you I'm taking notes of what makes a good/bad MIL. Thankfully that's years away yet. But one thing I noticed is if you are not close with your child/seeing them regularly before kids they don't necessarily want you suddenly around when kids arrive.

I think my MIL could be on mumsnet complaining about me. Since my DH had a child she messages all the time and tries to keep up a constant flow of communication.

The problem is I’m not from that kind of family. She probably messages me three times as much as my own mother (who I love dearly) so I really struggle to find anything to message on a regular basis. My closest friends don’t even message me that much. We prefer to just go out for a coffee and actually talk.

My DH messages and speaks with her all the time so it’s not that he’s left it all to me. I think she thinks she just being nice and inclusive, but honestly I wish she’d just calm down and leave me alone as she did before I had a kid. But I’d never say that to her in real life because she’s a nice lady, not my cup of tea, but I send her smiley faces and memes and peace is kept - I think she probably thinks I’m rude. Family dynamics are hard.

when a parentor primary caregiver does this it causes children harm. Your MIL is not your children’s primary caregiver, it won’t cause them any harm at all. It’s perfectly normal for extended family members to have different levels of relationship that vary in closeness, that’s life.

Bullshit, having a family member who engages in overt favouritism absolutely inflicts psychological harm. Having a member of your own family make clear that they dislike you as a child, or that they consider you lesser than other children in the family, can be damaging enough to count as emotional abuse.

There's a massive difference between naturally having different levels of closeness depending on practical factors (for example, a grandparent who has one grandkid living on the same street and another grandkid living in Australia) and a grandparent who engages in overt favouritism (for example, treating all grandsons like princes and all granddaughters like crap, or treating all the offspring of the golden child well and all offspring of the scapegoat child badly). No one is talking about the former.

It's also quite hypocritical how grandparents are essential close family members when denied access to adorable ickle babies, yet simultaneously such distant relatives that emotional abuse is no biggie.

I don’t think DIL’s need to have a close relationship with their MIL’s, I do think they should be willing to facilitate their children to build a relationship with their grandparents and vice versa

If the MIL hasn't bothered to treat their DIL politely then that job should fall to the son.

The power of the DiL to dictate her baby's relationships is a matter of fact that doesn't need stating to most MiL

I don't think it is a matter of fact, most people seem to think that women really don't have any automatic right or say over their own baby. In a lot of cultures, the mother of a man is the matriarch of the family and the DIL answers to her. Certainly on here, there's no end of stories of women being outraged and furious at being asked to not march in to their son&DIL's home whenever they want, not grab the baby whenever they want, not go into their son&DIL's bedroom and root around uninvited, etc.

There are a lot of women who regard DILs as nothing more than walking incubators and taken aback at the concept of them being actual human beings.

Everyone's experiences are different. I love my mother in law to bits. She's wonderful, warm, incredibly supportive and isn't intrusive. I think I'm so lucky to have a second family who are brilliant.

I tried and tried with my MiL, after an incident happened at Christmas and I had to go NC. I don’t stop my husband speaking to her.

My eldest daughter aged 20 had already gone LC last year due to her behaviour.

She isn’t a nice person, I tried to gloss over that and be forgiving and giving allowances but eventually after 25 years I had to say no more.

I do have also have a step MiL (she’s a mother of 3 sons & 1 daughter) she has a lovely relationship with her other DILs and even though I’m her stepsons wife has treated me and our children equally.

What people seem to think is a matter of opinion, not a matter of fact, and is therefore largely irrelevant. It matters not at all if the culture within a family holds a MiL in a position of respect and authority. She has no rights under the law and her DiL is entitled to restrict her access to her baby. Just because a MiL may try to act like this is not true, doesnt make it so. Obviously there are situations where a woman's husband may collude with his mother against her, but again, these are specific situations and indicative of a far more complex set of issues than the typical MiL/DiL conflicts.

Also slightly off topic but for anyone interested the book hags is very interesting and relevant to why women of the MIL age bracket are painted as the bad guys.

People are generalising based on their relationship with their own MIL. Some MILs are difficult, some DILs are difficult. Some get along fine. There’s a bit of ageism on here that leans towards blaming the older person for everything. I do feel sorry for some MILs who have to walk on eggshells but I also feel sorry for DILs who are constantly criticised. The DIL actually has more power in the relationship.

My MIL is lovely, I'm very lucky as my own mum & MIL became really good friends & even go away on their own holidays together.
I'm expecting our first baby in October & both of our mums are very excited!
My MIL has two sons & she treats me like her own daughter. She put me at ease on day 1 of meeting her, very warm, friendly & great sense of humour!

@Tandora

You do realise that because something happens to you and your ok doesn't actually mean that it's OK generally?. My own anecdote is that one grandma did dote on my older siblings and actively left one out and yes! It still affects him to this day 60 years on.

@flurbubbly good post re bargaining chip.

@IkeaMeatballGravy

Do be careful on threads like this because someone's wanders in with no concept or idea of what they are talking about the the other participants may have been through real pain and hardship due to mil. It can be triggering....

@flurbubbly another great post but don't let some posters upset you. 21.40

It's an emotive topic especially when you have been through it and someone else blunders in like this with no understanding of it.

The DIL actually has more power in the relationship.

I think that depends on the DH and the type of relationship he has with his mother and how much involvement he accepts or thinks she should have in his relationship with his spouse.