Is it unfair on DC to adopt?

[RedCarrots]

Two DC (one is just at primary, one about to go). Oldest struggles a bit socially, and is bit behind, can get overwhelmed (though he is also very happy). Younger one seems to totally unfazed by anything.

I am late 30s. I have been thinking about having a 3rd baby. I love kids, and I love being a mum. I also work full time and we are lucky enough to have help.

I know very much in my heart that my desire to have a 3rd baby isn't reliant on them being biologically mine and I'm thinking about adopting. I don't want to be pregnant. And I would happily have a child, not looking to adopt a baby.

I know I have more love to give (cheeesy!) and our home feels pretty happy and functional (most of the time!)

The only thing holding me back is my other kids, my oldest one specifically. Is it an unfair thing to put upon him? He may well have ASD (or at least his old nursery thought he might) - we are doing all we can to support in that area - he is very happy and loves school, has friends, but he does definitely struggle with change and we have had to adopt some techniques to help me around that.

Am I being totally unfair to him that now he's settled at school - we could change his whole life by bringing in another child who will need so much of our focus?

Oh wow ok, maybe there will be time then! Thanks

To be honest, I don't think you have any idea what it would be like for you and your children to introduce someone with very severe behavioural difficulties into your home. And of course having other siblings is not always the best thing for adopted children. Anyone with such difficulties deserves full attention from the parents. This is what your own both children deserve as well.

@determinedtomakethiswork

firstly, not every adopted child has severe behavioural difficulties, mine doesnt, I know plenty of others who don’t
secondly, as I said upthread, everyone is new to adoption at some point. We all have to go on our own personal journey, researching, questioning, challenging ourselves.
at this point there will be many things about adoption the op does not know. I dont see a problem with that

As an adoptive mum I find the comments of “get a puppy” absolutely disgusting.

op, I adopted my child 9 years ago when he was age 3. At the time I had a 6 year old child you has dyspraxia and add. The process is long and challenging for good reason. For them to get to know you to find the absolute best match for you and your family. There is also a rule that your adopted child must be (in my time) 3 years younger than your last bio child so they follow the natural order. I also know 5 people who adopted kids under 1 so it’s not unheard of. I just hate all the negative comments and anti adoption comments. It’s not easy and it’s a whole new challenge to raising a bio child but you know what, I have the most amazing 12 year old lad who has slotted into our family from day 1. We made it work. I just feel this has been such a negative thread from alot
of people who have not actually adopted. Whatever you decide good luck to you all

My uncle and aunt sadly had a couple of miscarriages and then adopted.
They were super parents, but got 3 "un" super children.
One of my oldest schoolfriends also adopted. The results were not "good".
Provenance, perhaps?

@FelicityFlops

would you care to expand on that remark?.

@RedCarrots

Lots of posts really against the idea so thought I at a view that may be more neutral (hopefully) or least give my experience.

I am a teacher and have been for a decade, worked in education prior to this as well and have also recently adopted a little boy at 10 months (now 2).

Lots of people have suggested attending the information evenings if they run near you and I 100% agree with this as it is really helpful. We did a group one and a 1:1 whilst deciding and it really outlined the process to us far more clearly which is probably key as there are quite a few regional differences. Also second going to adoption board for responses.

In case it helps, our experience:
You do have to take quite a while off, but my husband only took off 10 months and I only had the standard 2 weeks plus an extra one for half term. SS were fine with this.

Training and assessment is one major consideration as this is lengthy and can be quite a lot emotionally as well just to the level of things you go through and the things you learn about. Some people do back out during this stage as it the level of need and/or trauma can be eye opening. But you do meet other adopters who become a support network. Adopters came in shapes and sizes including people with existing children who had done it before. They are great to give you realistic views on it.

Our little boy himself is very different to what a lot of posts seem to suggest. Yes he has his own background but this is where lots of people seem to be ignoring that you will work with SS to find the right match for you. You will set out how much need you can support and age and they will check they agree. You will look at profiles that will anonymously outline known and potential risks/needs etc and they will have several matching meetings to check you really can meet these realistically before agreeing to even proceed. We looked at 7 other profiles prior to our sons all with different needs, backgrounds and ages and it is so ranged . Lots of people wait longer and see more profiles so it can take quite a while. Whole process for us took over a year to train and be matched to give you and idea. You have to be 100% honest with yourself and SS about what you can support, even it seems quite pragmatic or even cold to do so as it has to be fair to the child.

You do need to consider contact as well. You adopt a child but you may well also be adopting their contact agreement. This could mean meeting up with family or siblings for that child several times a year.

SS will also being coming to visit a lot after placement to observe and check and you need to consider the impact that may have on your children day to day.

Outside of my son, I have worked with and come across a lot of children who are fostered or adopted in my job and there is such a range of "need" or effects of adoption. Some children absolutely have noticeable attachment or development issues, some have absolutely no noticeable traits at all as it were.

It will absolutely be a massive change there is no avoiding that and I do think wait a little to give your two existing children a chance to settle into their schools more fully perhaps. But only you can decide if they will cope with the change in the future but I do really think your best information is contact with your adoption provider and seeing now it works in your region and their view about it all. They may well put you in contact with an adopter to speak to and ask these questions to who can be realistic.

Good luck OP with whatever you decide.

This is highly offensive. There are children out there who are left with severe trauma from their experiences. We’re talking about severe neglect where children’s muscles have never developed properly because they were left in a cot or car seat, children who have drunk toilet water, never learnt to speak because they’ve never been properly engaged with,
never known when the next meal is coming and constantly worry about food. Or severe abuse where they live in constant fear. Children who’ve seen a parent stab another parent, children who do the school run and bath their siblings because a parent is too drunk or high to manage, children who have brain damage forever because their mum drank alcohol while they were pregnant. Very often, these children would have died or come to serious harm had they not been removed.

As an adoptee, yes, adoption itself is a trauma, but sometimes it’s a necessary one. The courts decide that. So, yes, it’s not always what the parents want - even if a previous child in their care has died. Often parents have complex problems and have also had horrific experiences, they simply can’t care for their children (at least at that point in their lives). Some of them do fight in court, they do love their children, but the issues they’ve got needs sorting first because there’s a long road to removing a child, they’ve got chances to engage and change. It doesn’t mean it’s not a heartbreaking situation for the birth parents and we can’t have empathy for them too, but the reality is, children have to come first. Children died in the pandemic (and have died outside the pandemic too) because action was not taken to remove them. It’s not about the parents not wanting to parent in the majority of cases, it’s about them not comprehending what they need to do to safely parent and give a child a safe home where they can grow.

I'm not reading all of that, I read the first sentence and couldn't be bothered to read the rest, if you are offended on a fact based on what is documented in people's life then that is your problem not mine, nothing was stated to offend anyone. I'm an adopted person btw and I also have 2 children who are adopted by their father.

We have an eight year old a toddler we adopted just over a year ago. Our eight year old isn’t a grenade, damaged and doesn’t have behavioural problems.

OP you would be best to post on the adoption board, there you will find people who actually know what they’re talking about, rather than people making up crap for the sake of it.

I am not "making up crap" - I am very glad that your adoption has worked well - it is heartening to hear. But that does not mane that every person explaining the possible problems is making it up.

I have personal experience of this, having supported a close relative and close friend through very difficult times in relation to adoption. In one case the adoption fell through (mainly because SSD neither explained up front what the problems were nor provided proper support to deal with these) and in the other the child is now an adult in prison after SSD was not clear about the extent of brain damage suffered, and no statutory service would help throughout the whole childhood. And it was not for want of trying believe me. Some Mumsnetters will know only too well the state of CAMHS.

The first family went through hell, and found themselves blamed for the child's problems and their self-confidence destroyed - the child had sadly been in several failed adoptions, was understandably a very angry child, who made serious accusations about the adoptive father as a means of expressing their anger. This married couple were shattered and themselves damaged by the whole process.

The second family are hanging on in there with their support to their now adult adopted child in prison, but they have been through hell and are still in an impossible situation and are themselves in danger - I will not explain in detail, as it is outing.

By all means tell us the happy stories - it is wonderful to hear these - but do not accuse those whose experience has been the opposite of making up crap. I have no reason to make all this up. I want the OP to go into this with her eyes open.

To be honest, I don't think you have any idea what it would be like for you and your children to introduce someone with very severe behavioural difficulties into your home

I adopted two children, neither has severe behavioural problems, in the many adopted families I know all but one are doing really well, with no major issues. My children aren’t damaged - they are impacted by their early experiences but aren’t remotely damaged. They aren’t grenades either - they’ve turned my life on it’s head, but having kids does that.

OP you’ve had lots of information given, some of it accurate and useful, some of it well meaning but off the mark and some of it batshit crazy. That’s always the case with adoption though - it tends to bring out the best and worst in people.

The thing that I’d be thinking about is the use of a nanny. Adopted children come with very disrupted attachments and it can be very tricky for them to develop a secure attachment pattern, over a period of years in most cases. You and/or your partner would need to take primary responsibility for care giving to support attachment- some adopted children don’t cope with childcare and while a nanny sounds like an ideal solution, it could cause a lot of confusion for the child.

In many ways you sound like a good prospect for adoption, but you really need to understand any adopted child wouldn’t just slot in to your current family, work and childcare arrangements - and think about how much flexibility you have and how willing you are to change things to accommodate a child’s needs.

By all means tell us the happy stories - it is wonderful to hear these - but do not accuse those whose experience has been the opposite of making up crap. I have no reason to make all this up. I want the OP to go into this with her eyes open.

No one is saying you’re making up crap, but balance is important in discussions about adoption. Just because my kids are doing well doesn’t mean every child will, just because your experience is negative doesn’t mean everyone’s will be.

What I do know is that describing children as damaged, as a grenade dropped into lives, as inevitably having severe behavioural issues etc does nothing to promote reasoned decision making, because it tars every child with the same brush. Some will really struggle to overcome their early experiences (and sadly some may never get there), but others will thrive with the care, love and support of attuned parents (and professional support).

I am shocked at the anti adoption stance on here.

Yes adoption is not easy, and small babies are rare, but on the other hand I know quite a lot of adopted children, and they had all been in foster care since birth, and adopted at anything between 8 months and 2.5 years. So far less trauma based than the PP would have you believe.
All those adoptions are successful. Not entirely issue or probelm free, but certainly manageable, and not that different to dealing with BC with issues or problems.

I only know of one child (out of about 14 adopted kids I know) who was really hard. She was fostered from birth and then fostered into adoption from 8 months.
It turns out that she has severe and multiple learning issues, ASD, ADHD, learning difficulties and some other things.
The parents' biggest issue was that for the first 4 years no-one would listen to them saying that there is a problem as all problems were put down to attachment disorder.

A number of these adopters had BC, or had a previously adopted child as an older sibling.

If you went down this route now, it is likely to be 2 years or more before you were able to adopt. And then you would only be allowed to adopt a child 2 years younger than your youngest BC.

If you and your partner are serious about it, why not start with an information evening at your local council.

But please go over to the adoption board on here and get some opinions from those who have done it.

No one is saying you’re making up crap - they are - see previous poster.
I am shocked at the anti adoption stance on here. - it is not an anti adoption stance, but my experiences have ALL been negative ones. I have not listed them all.

As I keep repeating it is very heartening to hear the good stories, but that does not mean the negative ones should be ignored, or those posting their bad experiences should be slated and accused of lying or being anti adoption.

I have seen people go into this process with wonderful kindly intentions and find themselves in some very difficult situations with no help on offer.

If find the level of cognitive dissonance when talking about adoption very interesting.

When a child is killed by parents or caregivers there is naturally an outcry - what were services doing, why did no one act to save that child. Very often there are questions about why the child wasn’t removed from its parents and how many people would have loved the opportunity to care for that little one.

Talk about adopting children in care though and it’s talk about how damaged, disrupted and chaotic they are, how they’ll ruin your life, harm any birth children and be a never ending source of pain.

So, if we don’t think children should be left with harmful parents, and we think they’re too damaged as a population for family life, what do we do with these little people who are literally just trying to survive in the best way they can.

Adoption is a wonderful way of creating or completing a family. Yes there are challenges, and there’s limited support out there, but my kids make me proud every single day, they’ve overcome more adversity in their short lives than most adults have in a life time. Yet according to many posters here they are too damaged, too difficult, too disruptive.

I do know that left with their birth family they’d be dead by now, I do know that remaining in the care system would have been disastrous for them, I do know that they have flourished in our family.

My career has taken a hit, life is more complex and more challenging but I wouldn’t change it for the world.

Maybe folk talking about damaged, chaotic children could remember they’re talking about children - the same children who are lamented and mourned when they aren’t protected or removed. Star Hobson, Arthur Labinjo-Hughes and all those precious children who tragically lost their lives would have needed new families, and would have shown the impact of their early mistreatment in all kinds of ways. It’s easy to talk in abstracts but these are real children needing real care not damaged goods.

Op you need to speak to people who have actually adopted. I know a few people who’ve adopted into a birth family and also a friend who was the adopted child in a birth family.

it’s a fantastic thing to do and while it takes another level of parenting you really cannot take the words of people who have no idea about adopting and just trot out the ‘all adopted kids are broken beyond repair’ line.

How will you manage work if the child you adopt needs to attend a lot of appointments or is a school refuser or struggles to get or maintain a school place?

I would concentrate on your two children for now, and then revisit in a few years. And I would pursue the ASD diagnosis and get support in place for your older child, things might be Ok now but can always change

How will you manage work if the child you adopt needs to attend a lot of appointments or is a school refuser or struggles to get or maintain a school place?

What do people do if their birth child needs to attend a lot of appointments or is a school refuser? These are issues parents should ask however they come to parenting, they’re hardly unique to adoptive parents.

Apparently birth children don’t have appointments, school refuse or struggle to attend.

This is a valid point but as a parent of adopted dc you are much more likely to run into these types of issues so it makes sense to have thought about them.
It doesn't mean you will but surely thinking things through is sensible.

Believe me, if you’re planning to adopt you’ll have thought through every possibility many times by the end of the process. In my circle it’s been bio parents of children with disabilities who have struggled to make the necessary adjustments because no thought was given to the possibility that their child might need more. Adoptive parents have usually developed a number of contingency plans for such an event.

But OP is at the start of this journey and not the end so surely highlighting some of the issues she needs to consider makes sense?

I have also come across some adoptive families who for different reasons have been very unprepared for the reality of the situation that they ended up in.

I hold the local authority responsible not the individual family but it was the prospective adoptive child who had the biggest fallout from this followed by the prospective parents.

As a social worker I'd like to think things are always done thoroughly but sometimes they just aren't.

I think adopters are often unprepared for the extent to which life changes post adoption, and just how much their priorities need to change. Talking openly about those considerations is important but when that’s presented as a “gotcha” or in a tone to dissuade someone from considering adoption it’s inappropriate and unfair.

And that’s how I read @Yoyonono comment particularly when followed with “focus on your own children” gem. The implication being of course you would do it for your “own” children but it’s an imposition to do it for an adopted (ie not your “own” child), when in fact any parent needs to consider that their child will have various appointments, may not cope with school etc.

The OP has a child with possible neurodivergence and so will have assessments and appointments for them, they aren’t coming to this with no parenting experience to draw on.

Let's be honest here. If a birth child needs lots of appointments and school refuses, what tends to happen is the mum loses their job and/or marriage.

I have seen it time and time again.