Is it unfair on DC to adopt?

[RedCarrots]

Two DC (one is just at primary, one about to go). Oldest struggles a bit socially, and is bit behind, can get overwhelmed (though he is also very happy). Younger one seems to totally unfazed by anything.

I am late 30s. I have been thinking about having a 3rd baby. I love kids, and I love being a mum. I also work full time and we are lucky enough to have help.

I know very much in my heart that my desire to have a 3rd baby isn't reliant on them being biologically mine and I'm thinking about adopting. I don't want to be pregnant. And I would happily have a child, not looking to adopt a baby.

I know I have more love to give (cheeesy!) and our home feels pretty happy and functional (most of the time!)

The only thing holding me back is my other kids, my oldest one specifically. Is it an unfair thing to put upon him? He may well have ASD (or at least his old nursery thought he might) - we are doing all we can to support in that area - he is very happy and loves school, has friends, but he does definitely struggle with change and we have had to adopt some techniques to help me around that.

Am I being totally unfair to him that now he's settled at school - we could change his whole life by bringing in another child who will need so much of our focus?

What about volunteering in something child-related, in some way?

I mean this kindly OP, but I'm not sure you'd be going into it for the right reasons. Adopting out of broodiness is probably not a good idea.

I think working full time might be a problem with adoption. The child will likely need additional support and need you available during the day to some extent or after school at least. I think you'd need to consider if you can afford to not work or work much less at least the first few years after adopting.

You can take a years adoption leave, same as for maternity.

Note, I am not saying adoption would be right for the OP or not, but working people to adopt, as do those with birth children.

You don't sound naive at all and are right to point out that getting a cat or dog is a ridiculous thing to say. Good luck with your research. The world does need more people like you.

I absolutely understand that the child would most likely have profound emotional and behavioural challenges, and that the process is gruelling. I do have my eyes open to all of that - but I do agree that it might not be in best interest for DS immediately

^Op you are right to say that the process can be gruelling. Some children will adapt and settle into their adoptive families, others will never settle and will need intensive support throughout their childhood and life due to the impact of their early life experiences. How would you feel about giving up work completely if your adoptive child needs greater support, can’t find a suitable school, is removed from childcare etc? this is the reality for some parents/adoptive parents. How would you feel if the child has needs that start to impact on your other children eg they feel scared/can’t sleep/ don’t get time with you 1-2-1?

That’s a big thing to bring in to your family when you have young children and already have a child potentially who might need additional support to thrive.

years ago on some training I remember being told that there is a greater chance of adoption breakdown where children go into families who have biological children also. I suppose because if you have other children the impact of any behavioural issues might be greater as you have to balance the needs of all the children.

You say you want to adopt to offer a child a home who needs one rather than have another biological child. Why can’t you do that through fostering? I know you said you wouldn’t want to, but if that was your main reason then fostering is just as, if not more, helpful than adopting.

Yes. Adoption is not a smooth process. I know several people who's lives have been ripped apart by it

I foster a child. I'd love to adopt him as he's lived with me since he was 5 and now 17. I can't because his Dad refuses to allow adoption. In the UK you can only adopt a child up to 18 years. My children have grown used to my foster son over time and now treat him as a younger brother.

Exactly this. Repost on the adoption board, OP -- it has a lot of wise, knowledgeable posters, some of whom have adopted with birth children, or adopted multiple children on different occasions.

I have a colleague who has adopted 2 children alongside their one birth child and they’ve made it work well BUT

They are totally on the ball with professional help. When an issue has appeared, the immediately look to find a therapist/doctor/expert who can help. Some of it comes via SS and the NHS, and some of it is paid for privately

The thing that jumps out at me is that your DS nursery flagged a potentially ASD issue which you haven’t followed up, and in a later post, you say you’ll ‘wait and see’ whether he needs additional support.

I don’t think your lack of proactivity to find suitable support for your DS sounds very compatible with having an adopted child that needs someone on the ball and looking out for their interests, let alone your existing children having you looking out for what additional support they will need when their lives get impacted by the arrival of a new (and potentially troubled) sibling

Even reading the adoption boards, successful adopters seem to have a similar mindset, and it’s not the naive attitude that a bit of love and a family will solve all the problems

The bit where you said ‘the right support’ is crucial. Sadly, very few adopters get the right support for the child they adopt. The number of adoptions that break down as a result is far too high.
Adopting a child because you ‘love’ kids / would make a great parent / want another baby is by far the worst reason to do so.

When I was working in adoption many years ago We were placing healthy 6 week old normal babies.
That is no longer the case. The stigma of single motherhood is far less and the children available for adoption are: older, sibling groups, emotionally damaged, disabled, the children of addicts and brain damaged in utero .....

My sister adopted ... her life and that of her OH has been wrecked over the years: massive behaviour problems, violence, battling for crumbs of help from statutory services, drug taking and now imprisonment. It has been dreadful to watch and feel so helpless.

I have seen more than one family fall apart under the stress of an adopted child.

Expend your love on your existing family.

If you were childless and aware of the potential problems and saw this as a life's work it would be different.

You also need to be prepared for the fact that there will be no help on offer. Parents who adopt are treated as untrained therapists for deeply damaged children.

I initially missed that you have a nanny for childcare. As an adopter I'd imagine that in itself would be a big no from social Work point of view. As has already been said any adopted child needs (whether its done or not) parented differently and this parenting needs to come from the parent only.
Attachment will absolutely be an issue on different levels in different ways, always for that child, whether it's obvious to the parent or not. Their needs will need to be anticipated and prioritised for them to thrive and achieve their potential.
Entrusting your child with existing attachment needs to a professional whose priority will be to 'manage' all the children in her care us not sufficient in my opinion to meet such a child's needs.
On top of that you then have to advocate and fight for your child's needs to be met at school. Who will do that effectively if the nanny is the one bonding with them and building attachment with them? Not to mention the sheer logistics of it.
Even the most qualified nanny in the world cannot provide what that child will need which is you.

I’m an adoptee and I think it’s fantastic you want to adopt, though risky to post in AIBU (the adoption forum here is great). I’d agree with those who say to wait until your DC are older, as adopted children can need lots of support. My dh and I are also hoping to adopt, but waiting until our children are older. In the UK, you usually have to adopt in age order, so any child would be younger than your youngest birth child.

I definitely had my fair share of serious issues relating to trauma into young adulthood, but I’m now really happy, have a lovely family of my own, run a successful business and a great relationship with my parents (adopted) - so though the journey can be long, there is hope. Be ready to advocate for your child and focus on having a strong support network ready for when you think the time is right. Be really honest about what you feel able to cope with in the assessment process and how the experiences you have can help or hinder you in parenting under pressure. Be prepared for how bonding works, lots of adoptive parents originally feel like strangers to the children and gradually that love develops. It doesn’t mean they parent or care for the children less well at first, but it can be tricky to sit with emotionally as they tend to feel guilt or anxiety around the lack of big feelings. It’s totally normal and those feelings grow in time. Be aware and prepared for all these things can definitely help.

I’m not sure whether you’ve had a look an any resources but The Adoption and Fostering Podcast by Al Coates is good and has stories from adopters as well as adoptees. They also have experts on to discuss issues that affect adopters. No Matter What by Sally Donovan picks up some key issues. There’s also books on Therapeutic Parenting, which is a parenting technique that can help and differs a bit to the norm. It works with all children, but is specifically designed for those who’ve experienced trauma. PACE could also be helpful to look into. Maybe start with these resources before heading into the process once your birth children are a bit older. There’s an adoption documentaries thread (in adoption forum), which is also useful and I’d definitely recommend Love is not Enough (process and struggles after adoption) and A home for Maisie (adopting an older child with significant trauma).

I find people suggesting you get a puppy a bit weird. Wanting to parent a child is a bit different to wanting to get a dog. There’s nothing wrong or weird about wanting to adopt and it doesn’t need to be a baby. One benefit of adopting older children is you tend to know more about the things they struggle with, whereas with babies there are often lots of unanswered questions. I do think, due to your oldest child needing extra support, it’s something that needs to wait, but lots of adopters are a bit older. Yes, the process is gruelling and that’s just the beginning, but there are happy stories as well as the tough ones. I’d definitely encourage the OP to explore it, but to really delve into the issues that can come up and practical ways to handle them first. (And to post on the adoption forum.)

I don't think this a good idea, you have 2 children which are far from independent who I should imagine are largely carried for by a nanny. 1 child has suspected SEN which you need to address and you are working full time.

You may have the space and the finance to support an adoption but you don't have the time personally to make this a success.

The anti-adoption vibe here is hard to read.

Name changed for this as it's very outing.

It has worked out in my family. Older DC, biological, were 10 and 7 when our adopted daughter arrived aged 15 months, following a two year process. DC were prepared very well by us and our social worker. She's now ten and the older two adore her, as do I. Eldest has ASD, only just diagnosed, but this in itself hasn't been a factor in how the adoption has gone. AD has some challenges educationally and physically and she is somewhat anxiously attached, but nothing that I can't handle or work with to support her. She was removed at birth, one foster family.

I want to add - this is the outing bit! - that DH died suddenly 11 months after the adoption, and I've been parenting them alone for nearly nine years now. It's been hard, I'm tired and my life would be a lot easier by now if we hadn't adopted my daughter, but I am grateful for her every day. She brings joy to my family, and to advocate and be there for her has given me purpose in difficult times. I have some guilt for all of them, yes, including for her because the stable forever family hasn't worked out for her as it was supposed to and she experienced yet more trauma. But they are all, now, pretty happy and well adjusted despite everything. This may be a bit rose tinted for some posters on this thread, but it's worked because of the love and commitment I had for her from the start. She was matched well to us and the bond grew quickly. I have no regrets.

It's worked for my family too. We have an amazing daughter who has brought us so much. But she has thrived because we could adapt to prioritise her needs in the family and not have to outsource to professionals for childcare when attachment and parenting accordingly were her highest needs. If a nanny is in the mix for an older child especially I think this makes it much harder.

I agree. I haven't had to use much childcare. She was like glue for the first few years. Aged ten she does one after school club a week. She could probably cope with one more.

Attachment to a nanny who could leave at any time would probably be a question mark for social services.

Honestly, op, I don’t think your set up will work well for adoption. I know you say your nanny is SEN trained but nannies leave. Adoption requires complete commitment and while you may be willing to make that commitment as parents, that’s not a reasonable expectation of a nanny. If she’s doing a large part of the care then that is going to be a problem.

Fostering might be a more practical possibility as each placement is time-limited. It’s something I’d like to do when my children have left home and I wonder whether this might be a good option for you? FWIW (and I’m sorry if this sounds negative) I have a couple of friends whose parents fostered and they have both talked about feeling neglected and pushed out as a result of the level of care their parents gave to the foster children. It’s not necessarily right objectively- very easy to argue that the children have more than enough compared to children in care and so should have been happy to share- but it’s worth remembering that you are making decisions about your family’s resources that aren’t necessarily going to be seen by your children in the way that you see them. Life is long- you don’t have to do everything all at once and it may be that fostering when your children are young adults would be a better fit.

Speaking as an adoptive parent. Don't do it.

You have two young children who need time and attention from their mum. The likelihood is that an adopted child will have issues. You will quite likely find yourself either not giving your own children enough if your time and attention or in trying to be fair to your own children, you will be unfair to the adoptee, who WILL need far more input than you can imagine.

You have to put the needs of the adoptee at the centre, and if you can't meet their needs then don't cock their lives up even further by doing a half-arsed parenting job.

My children were diagnosed with Neuro diversity as teens - if you already know your oldest has issues I wouldn't do it. As he gets older he is likely to need more support as teen years can be tricky. So sorry bringing a child into the family that needs more support as well is going to put more pressure on your family.

Everyone I know who has adopted a baby / child in the UK in the last 20 years (the time I have been a parent) has ended up with a teenager with enormous issues and some major obstacles to a happy family life.

It's one thing to make the decision to adopt as childless adults but quite another to bring a child, who will almost certainly have profound emotional disturbance and quite possibly extra physical needs, into an existing family.

They don't take children away from birth parents lightly; these are kids who have suffered the worst possible starts in their little lives with all the lifelong trauma that brings. It's not going to be an easy ride for anyone.

Talk to your local fostering and adoption team. Usually the it's suggested the adopted child is 2-3 years younger than the youngest child (minimum) but apart from that they can give you lots of insight and advice, also options like foster to adopt (more common these days it seems) when often they are much younger, also long term fostering. It's a long process tk be approved so just talk to them, you can always decide it's not for you.

It seems that you feel you do have some awareness of the challenges that children who need an adoption placement can present. I do not think that you do. I think you think you do.

This is the rest of your life and, more importantly, your existing children's lives. You are out at work full time and use nannies for your current children, who no doubt have the emotional tools to adapt to this. Do not assume that an adopted child will have this ability. They need consistent adults to bond with, and even then they often find this hard as many will have been down this road of different placements and different "parents." And many will have subtle neurological damage as a result of in utero problems and neglect.

Treasure and nurture the family you have and leave the adopting to those who have the time to devote themselves to it and make a proper job of it.

We adopted but not in UK we were living abroad at the time.
From reading about adoption in UK I would not adopt here.
We had two older children and the adoption social workers said we weren't to adopt any child older than our youngest child. We also fostered first and they applied the same rule, our oldest needed to both be older than the foster children. So we fostered infants who were either heading to adoption or home to parents or other relatives.
Babies and small children are left in awful homes for far too long here, long enough for the family to inflict long term damage. It's shameful and lets down the children involved.