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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

MIL 'speaking out' on H's behalf regarding DD's studies

354 replies

shecanshewillmil · 05/07/2023 18:43

DD is 4 and starting school in September

I do basic learning with her but in addition to this, she is learning to play piano, she swims twice a week and does gymnastics. I enjoy talking to my daughter, and naturally we have conversations about interesting, education topics, worded appropriately for her age groups

Disciple is important from an earlier age. It simply makes your life easier. In the end. I do not hit my children, I mean self discipline. DD has to put her washing in her basket and knows how to separate white washes, strictly. She is good at this. Puts her shoes away properly. Knows not to take more stuff out without putting the other stuff out

Puts her bed together in the morning (with my help, I want it done properly).

MIL pulled me aside at the weekend to say H was worried about my attitude towards learning. She said he is concerned DD is doing too much. I said did H really say this? She said well, no, but I know he feels that way. H says to ignore her

I said no, she's happy and balanced. There isn't even a mention of her disliking anything yet. She enjoys her activities

DD had a disabled brother and knows she is fortunate not to have these barriers, and should appreciate life to the full

AIBU to say it is not her place? She lacks personal discipline and it shows. Sadly, we must all do it to succeed

Perhaps this is a cultural thing. H is white British. I am not so. But I have to say, I am from a working class background and by no means 'middle class'. But opportunities and exposure through fun is important to me, parenting wise! It builds children up for success and happiness. These things set the foundations for a happy, comfortable life.

OP posts:
TortillaChipAddict · 05/07/2023 20:58

AllIwantforChristmas22 · 05/07/2023 19:10

4 is too young to start proper piano lessons, her fingers are not developed properly. Ask any real music professional.

you sound way OTT and overinvested OP. She is a small child, not a project. Most of what you describe is not age appropriate and your put too much pressure on your child to perform and have emotional maturity beyond her years. Time to reflect on your upbringing and what you are projecting here.

Sorry - have to disagree. I’m a professional classical musician and started a stringed instrument at 3 and piano at 4. It does give you an advantage to start that young.

OP my five year old actually does all the same things as your four year old, I don’t think we could do any more but she loves all the stuff she does. It is quite intense during term time but gives her an outlet for her interests and talents that she doesn’t get at school - she’s very agile and school
pe lessons aren’t cutting it for her. She literally climbs the walls at home if she doesn’t do gymnastics. They also don’t do formal music making as no music specialists at her school, I’ve been in to do music sessions but they don’t have anything regular. You can always drop something if she needs to. We dropped gymnastics for a while as it was too much, reintroducing it now. All these activities also support her schoolwork too with how they develop the brain, hopefully meaning she finds school less difficult and tiring than if she wasn’t doing them.

morejumpingfrogs · 05/07/2023 20:59

Motnight · 05/07/2023 19:14

DD had a disabled brother and knows she is fortunate not to have these barriers, and should appreciate life to the full

This is the bit that has stood out for me, Op. Not sure of the circumstances but this seems something that no 4 year old should be thinking about.

At 4 my Dd had only a limited understanding of her brother's severe disability. We made it a point to shield her from it as much as possible over the years, tricky living in the same house. A sibling with disabilities can be a difficult burden for the able child if you're not careful and sometimes even when you are 😞 It's a v difficult line to walk. Your approach of gratitude they are not themselves disabled makes me a uncomfortable, they will be impacted by the limitations the disability imposed in a lesser and indirect way, but still impacted. Please be mindful of this as she grows up.

Forgottenmypasswordagain · 05/07/2023 21:00

I think it is great that your little girl makes her bed and sorts whites ect. You will know if her activities become to much by her behavior and tiredness. Well done mum.

AndIKnewYouMeantIt · 05/07/2023 21:01

timetablesquare · 05/07/2023 20:46

On the flipside I also have East Asian friends who have lifelong hobbies and skills they started at a young age and did/still do to a high level.

Some switched around till they found what they liked and were good at, but there was perseverance involved too.

It's come up in discussion before and they learnt both hard skills and soft skills. Psychologists say that you should diversify sources of self esteem, which is why it's lovely to have a sport or skill.

I wish I had something special like that, but the Brits in the discussion agreed that it's usually reserved for rich children here.

Well, this is why I asked about private school, which I don't know why the OP found so funny. My DH's cousins have just finished at private and a musical instrument, sport and extra language were not optional so as to look good on uni applications. I don't have an opinion on the chores, it's the already doing "basic" learning (how basic?) plus instrument at 4 that made me ask!

timetablesquare · 05/07/2023 21:01

TheWalrusdidbeseech · 05/07/2023 20:42

I think maybe this thread shows why mothers are so tired, and underperforming career wise, in the UK?

because they don't leave their 4 year old in charge of the housework you mean? 🙄

A 30 second chore consisting of sloppily chucking some toys or items of clothing in a bin – which I usually have to redo for them anyway – that's being in charge of the household?

I think again your reply sheds light on why mothers are always exhausted from picking up after their families... Even by the time their the children are primary school aged or teenagers capable of picking up after themselves!

All skills start young. We start teaching things like respect and kindness young, the younger the better. Same for things like being considerate. Doesn't matter how badly they do it as little children, the point is not doing the chore but the concept of consideration behind it.

Really, my children used to play pretend cooking/washing up even with no one forcing them. If you make tiny mini chores fun, they'll think it's great fun. And they love the praise and affirmation!

If you think it's so sad and awful to learn how to tidy up for the next person who uses the space, then they will pick up on that.

I suppose you think Montessori is abuse too!

timetablesquare · 05/07/2023 21:04

timetablesquare · 05/07/2023 20:51

@alongside @Screamingabdabz I think your racist replies are irrelevant. I've lived in other countries and have seen boys and girls equally encouraged to learn independence from a much younger age than in the UK (in Nordic and East Asian cultures).

In fact preschool children (whether boys or girls) have little chores which they love, and in primary and secondary have things like a chore rota and communal cleaning – not in the name of domesticity but this idea that everyone in a place should contribute to keeping it clean for the enjoyment of everyone else.

Sorry I should clarify that the 2nd paragraph applies to East Asian cultures. It's the idea of communal contribution and consideration. I was actually well pleased my DS and DD were learning those things at school. @alongside @Screamingabdabz

Houseplantmad · 05/07/2023 21:05

My DCs have always put washing in the basket - if they didn’t their clothes wouldn’t get washed (although separating colours is still a work in progress when they do their own washing - they’re 21 and 20 now). They also made their beds, or pulled the duvet up, from an early age.
They did similar activities and enjoyed them. They’re now fully functioning adults who can cook, clean and look after themselves who are glad they had lots of different opportunities and experiences during their childhood.
I think people are being quite harsh towards OP and I think your MIL should mind her own business.

Forgottenmypasswordagain · 05/07/2023 21:05

Your mil is worrying over nothing!

BitOutOfPractice · 05/07/2023 21:06

YesYesAllGood · 05/07/2023 20:21

OP, I think an important thing to take away from this thread is that what your daughter is doing now at 4 is quite unusual in British culture, which is why you've hit a nerve with so many posters as well as your MIL. So I would encourage you to at least have some understanding of where your MIL is coming from! Wink

Looking realistically at your posts, I actually think you've found a good balance between the extremes of British culture (4 year olds having no responsibilities or activities) and your own culture (4 year olds being regimented to within an inch of their lives).

Like other posters, I would be slightly concerned about your daughter feeling under pressure because of her disabled brother. But it sounds like you're taking that on board.

Also, my MIL is a music teacher and says there's no real benefit to starting an instrument before 7/8. By the time she reaches that age, the kids who are just starting will catch up very quickly. But if she enjoys it, that probably doesn't matter.

I think you're doing well, OP. Your daughter sounds lovely.

I think this is a really sensible post. I’d go with this.

and yes, I think a lot of what you and your mil is cultural jarring. Going both ways.

alongside · 05/07/2023 21:08

timetablesquare · 05/07/2023 20:51

@alongside @Screamingabdabz I think your racist replies are irrelevant. I've lived in other countries and have seen boys and girls equally encouraged to learn independence from a much younger age than in the UK (in Nordic and East Asian cultures).

In fact preschool children (whether boys or girls) have little chores which they love, and in primary and secondary have things like a chore rota and communal cleaning – not in the name of domesticity but this idea that everyone in a place should contribute to keeping it clean for the enjoyment of everyone else.

Wtf are you on about? 😂

this idea that everyone in a place should contribute to keeping it clean for the enjoyment of everyone else.

Thank you, but I do not think this is new to anyone in my country. It was the norm even for my 80 year old dad back in the days. 😂 My dh took 364 (paid) days maternity leave. What has been natural here for decades seems to be news to many other countries, so you can keep your comment of bei g racist to yourself. 🍪

TheseThree · 05/07/2023 21:08

MIL is most certainly out of line and needs to be told so, preferably by DH.

That said, my oldest was very even tempered and well mannered. She danced, did gymnastics and was generally good about picking up after herself and helping me as I requested. We did lots of activities together as well - educational and otherwise.
I always made sure she had downtime though. Usually a few hours a day where she could just play without me insisting on cleaning as she went (it’s ok to clean up later sometimes). If we had an exceptionally busy day, I would make sure we had a very laid back day shortly after.

Maybe you are giving her that chance to just be 4. Maybe your expectations are too high, as if trying to make up for her brother’s inability to do the same things. I would simply advise you and your husband to make sure she has that, and if some day she seems to have “regressed” then be gentle through it. She is only 4 and needs time to be free of big kid and adult responsibilities.

And while you do tend to that and have those conversations, tell MIL to keep her nose in her own business.

alongside · 05/07/2023 21:09

alongside · 05/07/2023 21:08

Wtf are you on about? 😂

this idea that everyone in a place should contribute to keeping it clean for the enjoyment of everyone else.

Thank you, but I do not think this is new to anyone in my country. It was the norm even for my 80 year old dad back in the days. 😂 My dh took 364 (paid) days maternity leave. What has been natural here for decades seems to be news to many other countries, so you can keep your comment of bei g racist to yourself. 🍪

Show quote history

@timetablesquare And yes, I was born and raised in one of those Nordic countries you mention. And I am raising my son and daughter here too. Thank fuck for that. 😂

neonjumper · 05/07/2023 21:12

'I get that. It isn't really phrased like that to her though. It's more of a 'isn't it great you and me can speak. You have a voice. Use it, some others can't'
*
I find this approach of yours pretty disgusting. What you are teaching your daughter is that her brother is defective and she is not and she has a responsibility to make up for this 'shortfall'.

Your children are different in their own way and a 4 year old does not owe you for being who she is .

I think your DH has voiced in some way to his mother his not being in agreement to your approach.*

alpenguin · 05/07/2023 21:12

I don’t see anything wrong with the hobbies or having your kids who can, help out with chores but the way in which you describe this ( separating whites/colours for example) just kind of raises some control flags. Having discipline is fine to an extent but living a regimented and controlled life isn’t. Four year olds don’t need to learn that degree of responsibility yet. Lighten up and let her be four.

also please don’t make her feel grateful for being abled bodied/non-disabled. That is really quite insulting. Your son knows no other way of life and probably doesn’t hate his existence because of his disability, don’t raise your kids to see disability as a bad thing and being non disabled as a privilege.

Piglet89 · 05/07/2023 21:13

OP my husband and I are both extremely musical. I’m gonna be honest - I would be DELIGHTED if our crazy energetic boy who turns 4 in a couple of months would sit down at a piano long enough to learn!

i have enrolled him in gymnastics (first session this Saturday morning). There’s not a brilliant music/musicianship offering where I live so I am gonna do a Kodaly summer school in August and then hope to teach it to local kids (Inc my son) to get him started in Solfa and so on and springboard to an instrument from there when I judge he’s ready (it’s a method that relies on group music teaching and learning through play, I understand)

If your daughter enjoys all the stuff she does, sounds good!

timetablesquare · 05/07/2023 21:13

alongside · 05/07/2023 20:54

I come from a family with money (not from England). I did not need swimming lessons, I spent days and days and evenings too by the lake with my mum and dad. I did not need dancing lessons. I spent more days than I can count making up dance shows with my friends. We had so much fun.

Show quote history

Odd take! Children don't NEED to go to school either, they could just prance around by the lake all day too, but school has its benefits.

Psychologists are clear about the benefits of both imaginative free play and having structured activities to impart resilience, teamwork, confidence, etc. The great news is you can have both things, and your child doesn't have to grow up as either a prancing hippie or a slave to schedules.

timetablesquare · 05/07/2023 21:14

OP has mentioned soon she will drop to 1 activity. I think it's nice that the child gets to experiment (it's toddler gymnastics so basically just rolling around however they feel like it tbh, hardly the Olympics training) a bit and find what she likes beforehand.

As long as OP isn't forcing her child into anything, and is checking in about how the child feels, I don't see the issue.

saraclara · 05/07/2023 21:14

OP, please do some google research into siblings of disabled children. I'm glad you're taking comments about this on board, but I really can't stress strongly enough that the approach that you're taking at this point is extremely harmful.

Your DD exists as her own self, not to be compared to her brother or to be encouraged to live her life differently from her peers because she's 'lucky' to have abilities (absolutely normal ones) that her brother doesn't.

There are many adults out there who still suffer from a form of 'survivor's guilt' and pressure to live their lives exceptionally to somehow make up for the fact that their sibling can't. Don't let your daughter be one of those burned out and unhappy siblings.

momonpurpose · 05/07/2023 21:19

She's 4 let her be a child. You run a big risk of putting far too much pressure on her. I would not be surprised if your H did make comments to mil but in the interest of not arguing said he hasn't. I think it would benefit your daughter AND you to relax.

Moredramathanrazzamatazz · 05/07/2023 21:25

His mum is a bit of a messy lady.

OP I am wondering so what though, if it works for her? Some messy people are also brilliant at what they do and achieve a lot, they just don't think that their messiness is a problem. Thinking of one of my friends in particular here and one of my children who is very creative and talented. Your child might turn out to be quite naturally messy and you might stifle her.

CelestiaNoctis · 05/07/2023 21:29

She should keep out of it. However it does sound a lot for a 4 year old. Just be cautious that she is a very young child.

Babsexxx · 05/07/2023 21:29

If this was a DAD imposing this level of discipline and activities on his kid and a Mum posted her concerns he would be absolutely crucified!

OP your husbands full of shit he’s too scared to tell you that you are far too much of it! He does have these discussions with his mum, and rightfully so I have a 4yo and if my husband was like you I know I would be!

Shen does she really get the chance to be 4?! Separating clothes making beds playing the piano lol dawdy! And I think your comparison to her disabled brother is absolutely sick.

Tophy124 · 05/07/2023 21:29

You sound over the top and I find the comment about her disabled brother appalling. That is something an adult would say, not a 4 year old. Don’t overly push your daughter or guilt trip her because her brother has challenges she does not or you are asking for resentment. she shouldn’t have to be ‘mindful’ of that, she is 4!

Lifeisapeach · 05/07/2023 21:33

Give her a break. she’s 4. Chores around the house are not for a four year old. Let her play, make a mess, be looked after. She’s been here four years and you have her separating laundry. There’s plenty of time for that.

WalkingOnTheCracks · 05/07/2023 21:38

@Feelinadequate23

I was raised like your daughter…..I’m now a happy, successful, confident adult

I wasn’t, and so am I.

So what?