To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

[NewCracker]

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

It might be unsuccessful on an individual level for some, but there's no denying veganism is gaining traction. Not so very long ago most people barely gave it a thought, yet here we are, vegan related threads popping up regularly, with page after page of discussion and debate.
Clearly veganism is being taken seriously enough that its no longer ignored by even the most militant of meat eaters; who are now moved to defend their choices rather than dismissing vegans as cranks who don't matter.

Oops, sorry my bad. With so much vegan bashing going on in this thread you’re post at first looked like sarcasm aimed at me along the theme of me being ignorant of wild animals suffering 🙈 have my apologies , and maybe some… cake? 🍰

Because I choose to eat meat
I hate the way freedom of choice is being eroded - if I want to eat meat I should be allowed to eat it.

No bother 😀I was thinking sillygoose was going to tell us that Santa Claus doesn't exist next 😯

Your 'choice' causes misery to the animals who are tortured and then have an horrific death.

I don't think that's something to be proud of.

I've been educating myself about nutrition and experimenting with my own diet for the better part of 30 years and the most recent research (and my personal experience) has led to the understand that individuals can have quite different nutritional needs. I've met people who do well on a relatively high-carb, low-protein, vegan diet. I am not one of them. Ironically, it was attempting to eat more vegan food - particularly beans and pulses - which led me to develop an intolerance to them several years ago.

As an interesting aside, the gene for lactase persistence (the ability to digest milk into adulthood) has had the strongest selection pressure of any known human gene. In other words, developing the ability to consume milk makes us stronger and fitter for survival. It's particularly prevalent in communities in north west Europe that were formerly pastoralists, far less common in communities that did not raise milk-producing animals.

I hate the way freedom of choice is being eroded - if I want to eat meat I should be allowed to eat it.

How is crocs being eroded? Meat is plentiful. You can by cheap meat anywhere. People having opinions about animal welfare - including meat eaters - doesn't erode your choice. And even if it does, who cares, you won't die if you don't eat bacon every night

And here we go again. Do you actually live in a rural area or are these statements just what you have read/seen (and therefore of course it must be true!!). I have yet to see a farm animal which appears to be living a life of horror and misery. It is not in the best interests of farmers to have their animals suffering and the majority take good care of them. Incidentally, the country I live in provides food for many, many, other parts of the world - you may even have eaten some of it (it's not all meat).

@Alyso look at how the vast majority of pigs in this country live. Torture is not too strong a word for it. Look at rape racks for sheep (standard practice in the UK). Look at 'higher welfare' chickens raised in awful conditions. Bred to be so large their legs can't support themselves. Look at calves taken from their mothers very soon after birth causing great distress to both.

So yes. I stand by saying torture. Look it up. Watch the videos. Then come back and say it's all normal and lovely.

I don't believe it is better for our health. Chicken and fish (if you count fish - it's non veggie rather than meat I guess) are pretty healthy. Lean steak now and then.

I could give up meat. I lived in India a while and was a veggie. It's just so readily available here, I end up eating it. I v v rarely cook meat for myself.

"The meat eaters realise their morals are at question, they react angrily and clutch at straws repeatedly to try and dispel factual information, it is at the very least, laughable."

Is that factual information like you said previously all meat gives you cancer and that all meat eaters eat red meat and not just chicken and fish?

I think we already proved you factually incorrect on both counts, but yet you are still spouting the same old incorrect tropes. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Yes here we go again. People can’t just keep shutting down the argument of cruelty in industrial farming by claiming “vegan propaganda!” or what have you. There’s much evidence and much proof, it’s not even in question. It’s easy for a lot of meat eaters and non meat eaters alike to not be aware of it because they don’t look into it. In the uk, over 70% of land animals are farmed industrially, and even if the farmers do their best to treat them well, there’s a limit to that, and the animals still end up suffering because of the conditions they live in.

I don’t know what country you are in, and maybe for the most part the animals in your country really are treated well and their living conditions are are good or decent and the animals are generally as content as they’re made to look on packaging. But in the uk it’s not the case for the majority, and in many other countries too. It’s significant enough to need something done about it.

“Rape racks” - standard practice?
No, this is utter bullshit.
Sheep breed in very typical ways in the vast majority of uk farms.
You're believing propaganda that bears little resemblance to real life.

Chickens are farmed industrially.
Pigs are semi-industrial, better than they’ve been in the past.

Cows and sheep are not, they have very high welfare standards. You might not like it, but that doesn’t make it torture.

@IAmSalmaFuckingHayek correct practice wrong breed of animals

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/intensive-dairy-farming-cows-animal-rights-cruelty-b1816980.html

I worked on farms for years, I now live within a farming community. Nothing that you’re saying is true.
It’s like taking the worst child abuse case and claiming that all parents are abusive based on that case.

your talking compete and utter nonsense "Torture" indeed.

How many sheep farms have you worked on? it is illegal to make sheep suffer or Torture them.

Schedule 1, paragraph 28 of the Welfare of Farmed Animals (England) Regulations 2000 (S.I. 2000 No. 1870) states that: - natural or artificial breeding or breeding procedures which cause, or are likely to cause, suffering or injury to any of the animals concerned shall not be practised.

I do wonder where people like you get your facts, most likely from fanatical vegan websites and other dubious activist websites. Most do not have a clue what they are talking about.

As we’ve been talking about meat I wasn’t talking about dairy.
That’s a subject for a different thread.

Really?
I don't agree.
All cull-cows end up in cheap pies, so I think there is a connection there.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/10/the-end-of-dairys-dirty-secret-farms-have-a-year-to-stop-killing-male-calves

@Muddymudbomb "I don’t know what country you are in, and maybe for the most part the animals in your country really are treated well and their living conditions are are good or decent and the animals are generally as content as they’re made to look on packaging. But in the uk it’s not the case for the majority, and in many other countries too."

Again more 3rd hand bollocks, you obviously believe the tripe you read and hear from vegan activists. Care to back that up with facts? what is your personal experience of working on farms? Where have you worked? please tell me because I may know you then?

Most dairy farms I know of use sexed semen so rarely have male calves.
Some run a beef bull with younger cows then rear all offspring on for beef.
If you have an issue with animals being killed for meat then no farming is going to be acceptable, but this is not the standard opinion. Most people eat meat.

Dairy farms are more industrialised because of costs and low payment to farmers, they are still high welfare and subject to frequent inspections.

Taking calves away is part of the cycle - if you don’t drink milk you have every right to hate it, or you could support a farm that leaves calves with the mother for longer. Sadly this is another area of farming that needs improvement, which will happen if/when supermarket buyers give a shit.

Or taking the worst child abuse and campaigning for better social care? At least she cares about her cause. No harm in that, only good.