To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

[NewCracker]

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

You would do what people did until quite recently in history. It's quite simple, your diet would be quite restricted , no exotic fruits or veg, only stuff that could be grown in the climate where you live. Clearly that wouldn't suit some, but it would be more sutanianable.

Sorry, typos!

I've no idea why Mumsnet allows these vegan bashing threads. They just descend into abuse!

It's not going to be more destructive, is it? That's just bollocks.

I guess people who eat meat never eat avacados?

And yes, I eat meat but it's dumb to defend it when we eat meat because we like the taste and it's an easy way to feel full. Nothing more.

I like it. Nothing good can come from swapping organic meats for chemically engineered pseudo foods.

I do try my best to eat mindfully though. With attention to seasonality and food miles.

It's not going to be more destructive, is it? That's just bollocks.

I guess people who eat meat never eat avacados?

Of course it can be more destructive. Acres of crops with very few weeds, hedgerows ripped out, fewer insects and birds. No comparison to a field of sheep or cows and the healthy soil, with insects, bird species, soil rich with mycelium.
Even moorland has far more biodiversity than arable farms, and has done more for conservation in the last 10+ years than arable farming!
Unless we change our ways and stop the destruction and start protecting biodiversity (and a big part of that is grazing animals), we lose more insect, lose more bees, and humans are screwed. The loss of insects stands to be catastrophic to the planet.

No one has said that meat eaters don’t eat avocados.

First they ignore you. Then they mock you. Then they fight you. Then they realise you were right all along and everyone lives happily ever after.

❤️🌱🐑🐄🐖🐓🦌🐟

So meat eaters also eat everything vegans do.

Meat eaters also need to feed 20 billion chickens, and billions of other sheep, cows and pigs with crops

Meat eaters also need to water 20 billion chickens, and billions of other sheep, cows and pigs.

How is veganism more destructive?

Again, not a vegan. I eat meat. Still am not going to argue that it's somehow less destructive. It's clearly not something anyone does to save the environment.

If we were all vegan/veg, people could grow some of their own food in gardens, allotments and planters, or in urban areas.

We are talking about animal rights here in the context of not eating meat. The premise being, those lives are as valuable as human ones, and therefor killing is not justified for food.

But if we are talking number of lives lost, there isn't particularly a notable difference.

People who are trying to eat sustainably don't eat avocados, unless they are living where they grow. For anyone trying to eat efficiently, close to home, one of the best things they can do, if they have the space, is to keep a pig. It takes a lot of our waste food, plus grass, and turns it into something valuable and nutrient dense.

Even where there is overlap in diets, the amounts aren't always the same. nutrient rich foods mean a person has to eat a lot less than someone who is eating less dense food. It's not straightforward.

Farming animals in the way that sheep and beef are farmed in this country is beneficial and uses land that otherwise couldn’t be used, and increases numbers of lives lived in the area in the form of insects, birds, flora and fauna in general.

Industrial farming of any sort is dreadful.

If the World population decided en masse to not eat meat it would be far more destructive as you’d lose the cycle that keeps soil healthy (animals eat, animals poo, poo feeds soil). You’d have unmanageable levels of waste. Nutrients in arable soil is already depleted, we should be trying to improve that, crop rotating with grazing animals fixes that. As has been said numerous times before, no meat eating = no animals.

I’ve read that some people would love the British isles to be reforested, but that again would lose the diversity of life we have here, and unless we also depopulated and forced people to become hunter gatherers once more this would be disastrous for many humans (but perhaps not the worst idea).

Like most other issues in existence, we need balance, not either/or.

@Rudderneck I think it would be great if we could all produce our own food and buy whatever else from local farms. Anyway, yes I do agree it's complex.

Just don't think the argument that 'we'll vegans eat avacados!' Is a good one. Or that mainting animals is somehow greener than just plucking a fruit from a tree or eating vegetables directly

Eating out would be difficult for me, now that the only meat free options are also vegan. I love butter, cheese, eggs etc - kale and beetroot burgers (or similar) not so much.
Restaurants are treats these days, I wouldn't waste the money.

Yes, the new trend for all vegetarian options in restaurants to actually be vegan is frustrating. I often used to have the veggie option, but the vegan options are often uninspiring and bland. So I now eat more meat when out than I used to.

Just don't think the argument that 'we'll vegans eat avacados!' Is a good one. Or that mainting animals is somehow greener than just plucking a fruit from a tree or eating vegetables directly

Maintaining animals usually takes place on land where you couldn’t grow fruit or veg.

Farming traditionally uses land in ways that it can be used, so you wouldn’t plant fruit trees on high ground with poorer soil because they won’t grow. In those areas you’d keep sheep.

Near me there are loads of beef farms, the land isn’t good enough to make decent silage, so crops would not grow well at all. It’s ideal for growing cows though.

We have all got used to having fruit and veg from far off places whenever we want. To me this is more of a problem to the planet than eating meat moderately and buying it from sources that ensure its welfare. (I realise not everyone does that, but that’s the fight to have - local foods wherever possible should be the norm)

I think this post just proves the vegan stereotype 😂

" we know it's better for the environment,

Yes, but we don't know what would happen to the countryside without farming. I am particularly concerned about Welsh speaking communities.

we know it's better for our health,

no, we don't really know this. I think a very healthy vegetarian (not vegan) is likely to be healthier than a very healthy omnivore, but for many people meat offers the options to get their protein, B12, zinc, iron, etc.

we know it's better for animal welfare

here I agree

and it's actually quite expensive.

Not compared to lots of other things that people buy.

By the way, I'm 90% vegetarian, but I don't quite agree with all your arguments.
I STRONGLY disagree with those who say it tastes nice 😃

I eat it because it tastes bloomin’ delicious and for no other reason. I enjoy a lot of vegetarian dishes and often choose one from the menu when we’re out but I’ll never give up meat as it’s so tasty. 😋



If you’re educated enough, you’ll actually recognise it’s the meat eaters stereotype, defensive, hostile, lacks any scientific evidence to many of the claims made 😉

I think a majority of this thread would agree that this really applies to vegetarians and vegans. Must be hard to be on the wrong side all the time 😉

Protein is my plain and simple answer. I cannot get enough protein without eating meat

And you have just confirmed my claims 😉

Ditto 😉