To ask why people are so against giving up meat?

[NewCracker]

Just that really, why are people so against giving up meat?
Without a doubt we know it's better for the environment, we know it's better for our health, we know it's better for animal welfare and it's actually quite expensive. But still as soon as you mention to the greater public about cutting their meat consumption, they get defensive and almost offended.
Would you ever consider giving it up, if you do consume it now? If not, why not?
I'm expecting some hate, this is MN after all, but I am genuinely just curious. Not trying to rattle feathers.

Sorry typo *thread.

@Pinklagoon sorry I’m not following your meaning! The afternoon tea hasn’t kicked in yet. 😀

@SherbetDips 😚

I've tried, but missed it too much I'm afraid. I do however only eat organic grass fed from a local farmers, it is expensive so I do eat a lot less. It has become a treat rather than an everyday thing. I have to eat a low carb diet, around 60 grams a day, so I've had to find protein from others sources.

Many people don't seem to understand that industrial agriculture, and lab based foods, are all environmentally problematic, bad for food security, and tend to lead to all kinds of weird interrelationships.

You get people thinking corn is being grown just for cows, when often it's quite the opposite, cows are being raised in order to use corn.

With well planned integrated systems, you should have synergies create by the interplay between plants and animals on the farm. So animals can eat waste products, also graze which is important in crop rotations, they provide manure, even labour. Having some grazing land for your crop rotation, it's good to put sheep on it, they keep it healthy and manure the land without mechanical intervention, you get meat and wool out of it. And maybe you add chickens who will help keep down parasite loads on your sheep, they can also graze where you've harvested grain and make good use of what's dropped, etc.

It's way more efficient than just plant monocultures, or even plants that aren't monocultures.

But one of the premises of animal rights is all living animals, (not plants, for some reason) have the same value on their life, they are not lesser than humans.

If that is so, why differentiate between cows and mice, or mice and insects?

@Wanderingowl I think when you’re talking about almost half of a substance’s usage, calling it a byproduct is fairly disingenuous. 😂

But anyway, feel free to pretend you’re not responsible for the rats killed in the feeding of our animals if it helps you stay angry at vegans.

I'm intolerant to beans and lentils and I need a decent amount of protein to stay satiated and give me energy. I've tried vegan and vegetarian diets (and that was even before I developed the intolerance) and I did not thrive. For me the biggest reason is health and vitality.

Better up your meds then for high blood pressure and cholesterol.

That may be true but it doesn't mean you couldn't thrive on a plant-based diet. Just that you didn't do it properly.

But one of the premises of animal rights is all living animals, (not plants, for some reason) have the same value on their life, they are not lesser than humans.

That's veganism, not animal rights. RSPCA aren't coming about because somebody out weedol in their garden.

That's not veganism either. Vegans don't believe that animals are 'equal' Rather we are against the exploitation of other sentient beings. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

The Vegan Society’s formal definition is: "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."

"That may be true but it doesn't mean you couldn't thrive on a plant-based diet. Just that you didn't do it properly."

That classic vegan line! "You just didn't do it properly"!!! **

The footage in Dominion is primarily from Australian farms, but is stated at the beginning that what happens there is what happens in most countries, and there’s also footage in it from uk and other countries. They can’t really afford NOT to treat animals like that in a wide scale farming industry. Even free range doesn’t mean the animals don’t suffer, they still do.

Oh I know. Bloody vegans pointing out the bleedin' obvious. How dare they speak the truth.

The point is that your 'choice' actively abuses animals and destroys the planet. It's hard to stand by and just go 'oh okay'. If you saw a man beating a puppy or a child and slitting its throat would you stand by and go 'his choice'. No, you wouldn't. It's not right.
Most social justice movements have sparked ire from the those who are reluctant to change. Just like the suffragette movement or Black Lives Matter. It about addressing injustices in the world. It's never going to be perfect. But it doesn't mean we shouldn't try and build a better, more equitable world for our children.

I think when you’re talking about almost half of a substance’s usage, calling it a byproduct is fairly disingenuous.

Without animals eating the parts of the crop that humans cannot use it would just be wasted.

As it is animals either eat or are bedded on these byproducts, and the resulting poo and straw mix is used to fertilise fields.
Large arable farms do not use animal manure on their fields, but use a cocktail of chemicals, which are likely to be why minerals in soil are much lower than they used to be, and why insect numbers have plummeted - including bees.

Polarised views aren’t helpful to anyone, but they are the current way of procrastinating around important issues.
Farming and meat eating is going nowhere, but I think many people could get behind a campaign to introduce methods that benefit both the land and animals.
Telling meat eaters they’re murderers or telling vegans they’re unhealthy isn’t getting us anywhere, it’s just a pointless bunfight.

Honestly it could be fixed by people voting with their feet, but you can’t have a cost of living crisis and expect families to buy free range chickens. And you can’t expect people to stop eating meat when it’s the simplest and most effective way to get protein.

The point is that your 'choice' actively abuses animals and destroys the planet

The point is that eating plants is arguably more destructive, destroying whole ecosystems to grow crops of nuts/avocados/insert healthy plant food of choice.

Chemicals are responsible for decimating insect populations - that is likely to have far bigger consequences on the planet.

Ideally we need to all grow more of our own food, having vegetable plots, keeping chickens etc. Work towards abolishing industrial farming altogether, stick to older methods that benefit the land, not drain it of nutrients. Eat seasonally, learn from a young age how to cook and meal plan, how to not waste up to 40% of food bought. Not rely on buying avocados that have flown/sailed more miles in their little green lives than I have in nearly 50 years!

These are things that could make a difference.

If any veggie/vegan is concerned about the planet then buying only locally grown food would be the best way forward, and food that was in season too, so nothing was forced in hothouses etc.

And the population needs to decrease substantially.

I agree with you. These are all things we should be looking at as well.

This is the type of pathetic post I was talking about.

@BlinkAndYouMissedMe I take no meds, obviously judging by your post you may have forgotten yours.

Ps I had a medical the other day all my cholesterol and blood pressure is fine. I doubt your blood pressure is. now 😂

Unrealistic. What would this diet consist of?

A big slice of humble pie they all deserve.