To wonder why women only want equality and not revenge?

[Kingcatnight]

Admittedly at the end of my tether with men at the moment so possibly BU but honestly right now I'm really struggling to understand what the majority of men appear to have to offer the world that in any way compares to or competes with the (IMO generally superior) social graces, intellectual power, emotional maturity, problem-solving skills, creativity and overall increased pleasantness of women.

I've spent the past week on the road visiting clients, most of whom are white middle class men in their 50's, and having to feign amusement at various childish jokes involving innuendo (not aimed at me, thankfully) and basic, rudimentary word-play. Before anyone suggests it, these clients bring a lot of money into the business I work for so a frosty response or "calling them out on it" would be ill-advised and incredibly damaging to my employer (and me!) but ye gods I'm sick of the self-satisfied look on their smug faces while they wait expectantly for their pathetic jokes to land and for me to respond.

Spent an hour's train ride today sitting in a packed carriage opposite a man who snorted and cleared his sinuses the entire journey, forcing everyone around him to listen to the sound of the snot going down the back of his throat, all whilst reading the absolutely sickening news that the Taliban are further restricting the rights of women in Afghanistan by closing all hair salons. Hair salons which were already only operating after having spray-painted out any pictures showing female faces on their signage. Women in this country are literally no longer allowed a face, let alone access to basic care, education etc.

And at the other far more superficial end of the scale the past few men I've dated, having gone to great lengths to try and vet them carefully beforehand, have turned out to be self-absorbed, selfish lovers who have clearly always relied on the woman's verbal agility and efforts to carry the entire conversation, and who actually have no interest in women beyond having a captive audience for their own accomplishments.

Weekly I hear of various other male relatives, or husbands/partners of friends and colleagues who generally don't pull their weight and give themselves a massive pat on the back for simply being half-competent at their job whilst contributing very little to home life, while their female counterpart is expected to excel as an employee, mother, partner, sister, daughter, friend, neighbour etc.

I say this as someone who has a very generous, caring father, generally decent male siblings etc, so I am aware "not all men", but I genuinely look around me in amazement at the number of smart, warm, dynamic and impressive women in my life who vastly outweigh the equivalent men and on days like today I can't help but think men don't realise how lucky they are that women are still only striving for equality and haven't taken it upon ourselves to overthrow them entirely...

I think a bigger issue is that most women don't even want equality, never mind revenge.
Unless they're all made up, the threads on mumsnet full of twisting themselves into impossible positions to ensure the males in their life do no housework, childcare (regardless of whether children are step or biological for the woman) or any thinking in a relationship is just shocking

yanbu. But as much as equality is out of reach, getting revenge is even further out of reach.

I do tend to view men and women as having different strengths and weaknesses, which if balanced can make an exceptionally great team. But more and more I’m coming down on the side of not liking men very much at all. (Trying to be very polite about my true feeling right now).

YANBU.

And I’m always suprised how threads like these are filled with women who do acknowledge everything you’re saying / how awful men are, but still are in relationships with men / have sons (who all are apparently so great). 😉

Amazing how there’s so many great men at homes, but not in the outside world.

This cartoon is about something else but it makes me think about what revenge could look like

https://www.boredpanda.com/feminism-gender-equality-comics/?utmsource=google&utmmmedium=organic&utmcampaign=organic

Yanbu

At all

Say that as mum to 2 DS’s

I’ve always held the opinion that, if women were in charge, there would not be any wars

I’m battling to make sure that my boys are different

@ohfourfoxache someone will shortly post the study that apparently proves that women as queens were more likely to go to war than kings. Whilst ignoring the context of being a female leader in an aggressively patriarchal society.

If we wanted revenge, then we’d not only be no better than men, but worse than men. And then revenge begets more revenge. Men will avenge themselves back. Is that the future of humanity? A cycle of revenge? the most vicious and bloodthirsty sex wins? Victor standing on a mountain of the dead?

No thanks.

I agree that women are the nicer sex, but it will only be a matter of time before we get jumped on by the gender police in this thread!

YANBU

Well that’s an awfully convenient cop out isn’t it? Even if it’s queens regnant doing it, just blame “the patriarchy” (might as well say Satan made her go to war).

As a Black woman, can I get away with murder due to an “aggressively white supremacist society”? Not a chance.

But a Queen who has supreme sovereign power in her country…she’s a victim in your mind.

YABU.
Revenge tends not to get us anywhere. It just causes more trouble.

Because we've been conditioned to be 'kind'.
Because we're busy raising kids and working hard and carrying the world's mental load.
Because we're fucking knackered.

@HadalyEve ouch, nope that's not what I was saying, thanks for the opportunity to clarify. The study was from the 1400s till the start of the 20th century in Europe. During that period female rulers (of which there were many fewer than male) were something like 30-odd percent more likely to be involved in a war. What I was pointing out is that during this timeframe, being a female ruler was fraught with additional difficulties due to their sex. So additional challenges to their legitimacy, their competency and so on. Context, not "the patriarchy made me do it" as an "excuse".

I don't want revenge. I want a better playing field, I want a better collaboration, I want an easier world for girls and women to live in.

The best revenge is to teach our daughters what we have learned.

Teach them that their value does not lie in their looks.

That a man is not a prize in their lives and that their first ambition should be to know how to support themselves so that they can choose IF they want a man at all.

To tell them that the should know that it's fine to say no to men.

To set the expectation of running a home and raising children is every bit as much of the father's responsibility as it is the mother's.

To encourage them into politics and medicine and law, all areas where women can make a difference. Into areas like engineering and architecture and design where they can impact on the physical world to the benefit of other women. To educate themselves on the plight of women trapped in regimes where they are treated even worse than in the countries like the UK.

And we should teach them about the dangers of internalized misogyny. To not see other women as a foe in a battle for a man's affections. To not use language like bitch or cow that dehumanises women.

To fully respect other women's bodily autonomy.

To understand the damage done by pornography and pornographers.

To embrace their own sexuality and not to be ashamed of it.

A better way of life for future women is the very best revenge.

We think equality is hard enough to aim to achieve.

There won’t be any change and everything will stay exactly the same, until women stop dating men, having sex with them, living with them and having their babies.

Men know (more than enough of women) will never make an actual stand, so they donmt have to change.
There’s always plenty of women who have low standards and many have even lower standards.

YANBU. What gets me about men is how happy a lot of them are sitting on their arses while women scurry round about them trying to get shit done. I don't know many women like this - most seem conditioned naturally to share the load.

You see it with families with small children eating out in restaurants. Man sits. Eats own food. Woman doesn't sit. Fetches high chair. Straps child into high chair. Puts bib on child. Finally sits. Helps child with food. Entertains child. Picks up toys and crayons thrown on the ground. In between, stuffs bits of cold food into her mouth. When I see fathers taking the lead in dealing with their small children to actually give their partners time to eat their food properly, I think "what a good dad". Which is fucked up really, given this is bare minimum stuff.

And don't get me started on men who stroll onto planes, sit and plug their headphones in, while their wives wrestle multiple small children behind them.

We've had both mums and dads over for playdates but only one dad has ever said "what can I help with?" to me when I make lunch or do snacks. Almost every mum we've had over has offered to help.

More generally, if we are in the position of getting revenge, we will have made such social advances that the men we want revenge on are mostly long dead. Achieving full equality for women requires that a lot of the male population are no longer like the ones described in your OP and that such as these are just minor aberrations.

This is the main issue with the idea of revenge on a societal scale for all women have been made to suffer. Let men now be traded as cattle and have no right to education and no right to their own bodies and no right to property and no political rights, for centuries on. But we cannot achieve it. We believe in "human rights".

Yanbu at all

The older I get the more I realise that they are just a vastly inferior species in every respect other than greater physical strength, speed and agility. And sometimes better hand/eye coordination.

We literally win hands down on everything else that counts:

• Intelligence
• Empathy
• Ability to multi-task
• Creative thinking
• Emotional intelligence
• Social skills
• Negotiation
• Forward planning and project management

There are plenty of men I love, including my partner and I have cherished male friends. But as a sex, aside from sex and companionship and brute force they bring nothing to the world.

I am pretty astonished it took me until I was in my late 40s to realise how woefully over-rated they are.

The women who shout the loudest about not liking men seem to be most guilty of not being able to live a full and interesting life without one, which is kind of ironic.
The biggest mistake women make is expecting a man to think and behave like she does.

It's odd, isn't it? Women wouldn't want this for their sons, brothers, nephews, male relatives etc. Instead, rather than revenge, we hope that the men and boys we love will grow up to believe in and actively work towards equality. We want good things for them, not bad things.

But many men are perfectly ok with perpetuating and modelling behaviour both in and out of the home which will contribute to their daughters growing up in an unsafe and unequal world. As if they don't see the link between never cleaning up after themselves or doing their share, and their daughters ending up as household skivvies in unbalanced relationships.

This one here!

Would mean more and be more believable if these women had chosen to opt-out men.

These women are just upholding patriarchy with the ”I love men in my life”.
You’re just doing the PR for them, you don’t have to like all men, you just have to sing the praises of your partner/son.

I think I don't want 'revenge' as such because I see such men as a product of the toxic masculinity and patriarchal social structure we have and I think it's a shame of them really when they have the means to be so much more and such better people than that as well. I think the sad thing is most men don't even realise how much the patriarchal set up actually has so many negative outworkings for men as well. Women know that they're capable of more and we're acutely aware that change is needed are actively working to realise that. I think a lot of men can't even see the chokehold they're placing themselves in and see themselves as somehow removed from the shitshow.