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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To wonder why women only want equality and not revenge?

314 replies

Kingcatnight · 04/07/2023 19:09

Admittedly at the end of my tether with men at the moment so possibly BU but honestly right now I'm really struggling to understand what the majority of men appear to have to offer the world that in any way compares to or competes with the (IMO generally superior) social graces, intellectual power, emotional maturity, problem-solving skills, creativity and overall increased pleasantness of women.

I've spent the past week on the road visiting clients, most of whom are white middle class men in their 50's, and having to feign amusement at various childish jokes involving innuendo (not aimed at me, thankfully) and basic, rudimentary word-play. Before anyone suggests it, these clients bring a lot of money into the business I work for so a frosty response or "calling them out on it" would be ill-advised and incredibly damaging to my employer (and me!) but ye gods I'm sick of the self-satisfied look on their smug faces while they wait expectantly for their pathetic jokes to land and for me to respond.

Spent an hour's train ride today sitting in a packed carriage opposite a man who snorted and cleared his sinuses the entire journey, forcing everyone around him to listen to the sound of the snot going down the back of his throat, all whilst reading the absolutely sickening news that the Taliban are further restricting the rights of women in Afghanistan by closing all hair salons. Hair salons which were already only operating after having spray-painted out any pictures showing female faces on their signage. Women in this country are literally no longer allowed a face, let alone access to basic care, education etc.

And at the other far more superficial end of the scale the past few men I've dated, having gone to great lengths to try and vet them carefully beforehand, have turned out to be self-absorbed, selfish lovers who have clearly always relied on the woman's verbal agility and efforts to carry the entire conversation, and who actually have no interest in women beyond having a captive audience for their own accomplishments.

Weekly I hear of various other male relatives, or husbands/partners of friends and colleagues who generally don't pull their weight and give themselves a massive pat on the back for simply being half-competent at their job whilst contributing very little to home life, while their female counterpart is expected to excel as an employee, mother, partner, sister, daughter, friend, neighbour etc.

I say this as someone who has a very generous, caring father, generally decent male siblings etc, so I am aware "not all men", but I genuinely look around me in amazement at the number of smart, warm, dynamic and impressive women in my life who vastly outweigh the equivalent men and on days like today I can't help but think men don't realise how lucky they are that women are still only striving for equality and haven't taken it upon ourselves to overthrow them entirely...

OP posts:
Elephantsdontlikechocolate · 04/07/2023 22:26

Of course women are superior since only women can have children

Peppadog · 04/07/2023 22:30

Lentilweaver · 04/07/2023 22:25

Or indeed the many people minimizing male violence, and insisting they run eagerly towards strange men late at night. Have no problems taking an Uber ever. No worries about hiking alone ( unlike the poor women thrown into a ravine). Instead, they look up academic studies online, and remember that women are terribly aggressive online....

Oh here you are again, dismissing online abuse. Do you know why it's relevant? Because it shows hidden aggressive, passive aggression, aggression that is less visible, aggression that tries to reduce someone's social standing, or reduces someone's self confidence. It shows that women can be just as mean, if not more so, to other people, but just in less of an obvious way.
And you don't need an academic study to show it, although there are plenty, the vast majority will have experienced it as children or witnessed their children experience it as children.

BeautifulSloth · 04/07/2023 22:32

YANBU

I'm starting to be disgusted with myself for being sexually attracted to men.

Hawkins0001 · 04/07/2023 22:33

Superdupes · 04/07/2023 19:41

I thought I had a good one. Turned out he'd been faking it. For 25 fucking years. I'm with you OP.

These days you cannot be too sure

umpaumpajumps · 04/07/2023 22:34

BeautifulSloth · 04/07/2023 22:32

YANBU

I'm starting to be disgusted with myself for being sexually attracted to men.

Hopefully you can blame men for self-loathing as well then.

TrishM80 · 04/07/2023 22:34

Thepeopleversuswork · 04/07/2023 20:24

The older I get the more I realise that they are just a vastly inferior species in every respect other than greater physical strength, speed and agility. And sometimes better hand/eye coordination.

We literally win hands down on everything else that counts:

  • Intelligence
  • Empathy
  • Ability to multi-task
  • Creative thinking
  • Emotional intelligence
  • Social skills
  • Negotiation
  • Forward planning and project management

There are plenty of men I love, including my partner and I have cherished male friends. But as a sex, aside from sex and companionship and brute force they bring nothing to the world.

I am pretty astonished it took me until I was in my late 40s to realise how woefully over-rated they are.

I'm afraid that's simply not true. If this was a female only world, and it never had male geniuses, innovators and inventors, let's face it, we'd all be living in mud huts.

Happier and safer in our, no doubt, lesbian relationships, and not having to put up with anymore ghastly and mediocre men in our lives, but living in mud huts nonetheless.

goldensky · 04/07/2023 22:37

Peppadog · 04/07/2023 22:30

Oh here you are again, dismissing online abuse. Do you know why it's relevant? Because it shows hidden aggressive, passive aggression, aggression that is less visible, aggression that tries to reduce someone's social standing, or reduces someone's self confidence. It shows that women can be just as mean, if not more so, to other people, but just in less of an obvious way.
And you don't need an academic study to show it, although there are plenty, the vast majority will have experienced it as children or witnessed their children experience it as children.

online abuse is awful. Being raped a different (and arguably a helluvalot more awful) plus IME men are pretty shonky on line too. Im not sure I believe women are statistically worse. You can also also turn computer off if you want time out. Not so easy with rape and assault.

Lentilweaver · 04/07/2023 22:38

TrishM80 · 04/07/2023 22:34

I'm afraid that's simply not true. If this was a female only world, and it never had male geniuses, innovators and inventors, let's face it, we'd all be living in mud huts.

Happier and safer in our, no doubt, lesbian relationships, and not having to put up with anymore ghastly and mediocre men in our lives, but living in mud huts nonetheless.

Not entirely true about female genius being inferior to men. Quite often, the men stood in the way of women. The first women doctors, for instance, were harassed, jeered at, and their medals for standing first in class were taken away from them and given to the men. Many of the first women scientists too had their achievements erased. Numerous books have been written on this, including Inferior by Angela Saini.

Subtlety1985 · 04/07/2023 22:39

“To wonder why women only want equality and not revenge?”

That would be an example of the oppressed becoming the oppressor. How would that be any good for society? Revenge is toxic.

Sounds like your only able to tolerate the men your related to by blood, however maybe to other women your father and male siblings would be ‘vastly outweighed’ by impressive women also.

“I can't help but think men don't realise how lucky they are that women are still only striving for equality and haven't taken it upon ourselves to overthrow them entirely...”

I find your post a tad scary tbh 😬

RoseslnTheHospital · 04/07/2023 22:39

@TrishM80 nonsense. Plenty of women geniuses inventors and innovators, even though women as a class were generally excluded from education and restricted from taking part fully in science, engineering and so on. Or even allowed to work. Or vote. Maybe we'd be in an even better world if women had been allowed equal access to these things for several centuries or more.

Tinkietot · 04/07/2023 22:41

I don’t think women are nicer per say. I say this all the time, believing in evolution I think there are very interesting ways men and women interact.

Men: the hunter using brute strength, willy waving eco male techniques. Generally isn’t as caring or nurturing. Have a fight move on and forget.

Women: as they aren’t physically the stronger sex had up develop ways to counter this I.e manipulation. Crowds together to get people in their pack and can show top dog ranking characteristics. Nurturing young is built into the dna.

Applying this to the modern world, Yes men aren’t as nurturing, but I think it doesn’t come as naturally. It’s something they have to work harder at, they are programmed to be more selfish. Women tend to be more bitchy and manipulative.

I would rather get into a taxi with a female driver late at night but honestly the idea working with an all female team would scare me. I prefer a mix of sexes to work with it tends to balance it all out.

Holly60 · 04/07/2023 22:42

It's funny though. Just on a personal level although I agree that population level men are way more violent etc than women, I've been far more hurt by women than by men.

Yes I was once flashed as a young woman on the tube by a grubby old man with a hole cut in his trousers, yes I've experienced overt sexism in the work place, yes I've spent a life time not going out by myself after dark.

And yet... it's still the pain inflicted by other women that has stayed with me. The bullying at school, the bitchy comments on my appearance when I started my first job, the ghosting of friendships for no apparent reason, the snide/patronising comments from other people in the workplace or the school mum cliques.

I don't know why, but all of that has hurt more than some bloke waving his tiny penis at me for 3 seconds on the tube (I'm being facetious of course before you come at me).

I know women experience real terrible violence from men. But this has been my experience, for what it is worth.

Lentilweaver · 04/07/2023 22:43

James Barry, one of the early female doctors, had to pretend to be a woman for 50 years to actually be allowed to study and practice medicine in the 1880s, so you will forgive me if I don't swoon at the incredible genius of men, our lords and saviours.

goldensky · 04/07/2023 22:44

TrishM80 · 04/07/2023 22:34

I'm afraid that's simply not true. If this was a female only world, and it never had male geniuses, innovators and inventors, let's face it, we'd all be living in mud huts.

Happier and safer in our, no doubt, lesbian relationships, and not having to put up with anymore ghastly and mediocre men in our lives, but living in mud huts nonetheless.

Y'all think we would be living in mut huts without the menz - 😁😁😁
nah. me and my genius innovator lesbians would be too busy building our own happy homes

Emmamoo89 · 04/07/2023 22:45

YANBU

brunettemic · 04/07/2023 22:48

Because wanting “revenge” is pathetic and stupid, not to mention hypocritical. Women should strive for equity and not equality. This whole “they did X, Y and Z things so we should do it back” is nonsense. Neither men or women are “superior”, women are better at many things, men are also better at many things.

Holly60 · 04/07/2023 22:49

Or to put it another way. I've had the experience of walking into a bar and a group of men turning to me and making comments along the lines of 'alright darling, can I get you a drink, you on your own tonight, looking lovely..' etc. simultaneously a group of women turning to look, doing the up and down thing, turning their back and laughing/whispering.

Both socialised behaviour, both uncomfortable, and yet I bet all the women on this thread can guess which one I found by far the worst...

umpaumpajumps · 04/07/2023 22:51

Holly60 · 04/07/2023 22:49

Or to put it another way. I've had the experience of walking into a bar and a group of men turning to me and making comments along the lines of 'alright darling, can I get you a drink, you on your own tonight, looking lovely..' etc. simultaneously a group of women turning to look, doing the up and down thing, turning their back and laughing/whispering.

Both socialised behaviour, both uncomfortable, and yet I bet all the women on this thread can guess which one I found by far the worst...

yep I hate it when other women turning their back and laugh and whisper. At least the men give me a free drink, then I say thank you and meet my friends.

Lentilweaver · 04/07/2023 22:56

These comments remind me of what Margaret Atwood said " Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them".

Personally, I don't care if women laugh at me. It's better than the men out there. Zara Aleena was killed not too far from me, by a man who went out there to kill a woman, any woman. I am gobsmacked that people are still going on about women being bitchy and whispering.

Mumtothreegirlies · 04/07/2023 22:57

men are very lucky these days on the whole. Not only do we carry the weight of the caring role, we also pay half the bills now as well.
we could be bursting at the seams with baby on a Monday have 19 hour labour and episiotomy on the Tuesday and have the house cleaned by Wednesday and be back to work a few weeks later. I think life has gone downhill since this ‘equality’ came about. We are no longer taken care of and children and family suffer. We need to put more pressure on men and then maybe less men would walk out of the family home.

NooNaNa · 04/07/2023 23:01

You're not wrong Op.

umpaumpajumps · 04/07/2023 23:05

Lentilweaver · 04/07/2023 22:56

These comments remind me of what Margaret Atwood said " Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them".

Personally, I don't care if women laugh at me. It's better than the men out there. Zara Aleena was killed not too far from me, by a man who went out there to kill a woman, any woman. I am gobsmacked that people are still going on about women being bitchy and whispering.

That quote is incomplete, the factual quote is more in depth from a lecture. maybe before you quote people you should get the full factual quote.

Just saying.

Lentilweaver · 04/07/2023 23:06

Ok will look it up tomorrow. It's late.

Wishitsnows · 04/07/2023 23:09

YANBU