To not work full time?

[Lazym]

I have two children 16 and 12. Since my oldest turned 7 months I have worked part time. I cleaned in the evening for 8 years and for last 7 1/2 years I've worked in a supermarket 4 mornings a week, 4 - 8. Obviously when kids were younger this worked out well as I was back home for the school run and partner went to work. My youngest started secondary in September, so now childcare costs aren't an issue I've had comments from partner about finding a full time job. My point is I enjoy my job and am good at it so why should I leave this job to potentially start a job I could hate? The job I have doesn't have full time hours. I contribute to the household financially, pay for two weeks of food shopping every month and pretty much pay for all of the kids needs/clothes. One example, just spent £200 on my lad for his prom, partner paid nothing. So I work and do the usual household chores cook, clean, washing etc. Partner is very money obsessed, but I feel I pay my way too. From when they were very young he's always swanned off and done his own thing, leaving me to it. Another issue with working full time is my lad will be starting college in sept and he'll need a lift to the train station which is 6 miles away and collecting, so how am I supposed to do that? Just needed an opinion. Can never reason with partner as he's never wrong.

How true!

You have been the FT carer of his children and his home at the expense of your own career. If he decides to dump you, this counts in your favour.

No. It doesn't. Because THEY'RE NOT MARRIED. If they split, she would get child maintenance but otherwise be completely on her own financially, and also homeless. It doesn't matter how much people think her working very PT "should" be taken into account. It's not. Even if she were married, at this stage a divorce court would expect her to work full-time.

Based on the fact you are no married and not in the mortgage, I think you should be looking for FT job and possibly retraining. Split all bills in half apart from the mortgage unless he adds you to it. You need to make sure if you split you'd have enough to rent a place, because you are not protected, even if you managed to stay in the house it would only be til the kids are 18 (or whatever age is considered an adult in the UK) after that you'd have no right to stay.

No. It doesn't. Because THEY'RE NOT MARRIED. If they split, she would get child maintenance but otherwise be completely on her own financially, and also homeless. It doesn't matter how much people think her working very PT "should" be taken into account. It's not. Even if she were married, at this stage a divorce court would expect her to work full-time.
This

People can (and should be free to) choose whether or not they want to legally blend their affairs or not.

People also need to make sure they are making informed decisions and it's women who find themselves losing out too often.

For example, two adults with children from previous relationships may choose to cohabit without marriage so that their assets from before the relationship are passed to their own children. That's an informed decision on managing their affairs.

Equally if someone makes the choice to move into a partners' house, reduce their hours or give up work, continue that arrangement for a long period of time, the reality is they're not entitled to that arrangement lasting indefinitely and by not getting married/having a civil partnership/legally joining assets in another way, their domestic input is not taken into account. They are two legally separate adults.

I really wish people wouldn't post nonsense that has no legal basis.
It is beyond all doubt that this man has behaved appallingly. But the chances of the op getting anything from the value of the house or the right to stay in the house are slim. The courts don't like mesher orders these days. And at the end of the day - it's not her house, it's his house. She knows it is his house and she has been refused to contribute to the house so she won't have built up any kind of equitable claim.

speluncean
I agree with you and it shows that it's yet another situation where a man has got himself clued up.

It's not accidental that so many men are happy to keep the house in their name, have their partner pay to living costs but not the mortgage, happy for a partner to stay home or go part time etc. There's dozens, probably tens of dozens, of threads with this pattern (see also marriage is just a piece of paper, he's a good guy and said me and DC can stay in the house if anything happens, he was burnt by an ex/his friends were shafted aka had a fair divorce settlement so he doesn't want to ...., he wants to wait for the right time to propose, we're engaged but we need to wait until the ever moving goalposts happen to actually do the legal part, and financially vulnerable women saying ignore the smug marrieds, me and DP have been together 17 years and we have friends who divorced after 3 years)

Sometimes I think there should be a thread pinned on the relationships board giving clear legal information or signposting women to legal information on this so they can go into whatever arrangement suits them being informed.

@LolaSmiles I agree.

I have every sympathy for the op and I'm irritated that people are posting crap that gives her false hope.

She's been left very vulnerable by the choices she and her partner have made.

As I was going through, I took out some quotations that seemed relevant. I thought it might help to put them here.

First
It's very hard in a few sentences to describe the past 20+ years. My partner has always been the same with money whether I worked full or part time, kids or no kids. I have questioned many times lately why I am even with him, there is no love there or even friendship and I'm more resentful by the day but as I have no financial security and don't want to leave my kids so I'm stuck. So I will now try to rectify the situation. I applaud everyone who has their s* together and hope they're never in this predicament. Hindsights a wonderful thing
That's painful to read and should draw sympathy from even the hardest heart. Coupled with learning
"I wanted to be in a relationship and feel like an adult after living with an overbearing mother. I feel another rinsing coming for this comment too - after a while living there I mentioned the mortgage to him and he said to the affect of "I've been paying this since 1989 and you're not going to just come onto it", so there you have it. I was young, ignorant and naive..
It's not surprising our OP had no training in recognising the difference between being bullied and treated as an under-dog. Her mother obviously treated her thus so when a man provided her with an escape and possibly what he called love which she would not have been able to assess, she left home for him.

Now quickly, the comment regarding ""I've been paying this since 1989"
CrazyLadie · Yesterday 19:39
Thays like 35 years ago he got the mortgage, what do you wanna bet ita already paid off? I'd take that bet happily"
You forget that was the first house he bought. OP told us, he moved several times in between until they moved in to this one. So he would have started another mortgage with each move.
Now we learn;
Yes I do, he knows what he's doing he's not daft. The thing is when I worked full time and put exactly half into the pot every month I did question him that i was paying half towards a mortgage that's not mine. His response was his half pays the mortgage then. So basically I was paying for the utilities, council tax and food. Was that fair....I don't know??

I think he is gaslighting you Lazym! He might well have the mortgage in his name only but you are paying into it! You paid equal with him before the babies were born, then you looked after them, worked at astonishing hours, and paid what you could into the account from which the mortgage is paid! Also your mum contributed! Listen to what you told us:

I know what's in and what comes out of the joint account (although he doesn't really like me looking at it) so I know how much standing orders or direct debits are and I know how much the mortgage is because it comes out of that also.
His mum and dad helped a bit financially with this one and my mum also helped with a couple of thousand. I have a pension at work, I don't know if he's made a will and when we moved here his mum and dad started paying for life insurance for us.
You see? You do contribute to the mortgage even if he has hisname on it. You put money in the account from which it is paid. He can lie as much as he likes about where each bill on that account's money comes from, it all comes out of the one joined pot to which you contribute, half and half when you had no children then what you could when your time was given to raising the children. And that time counts too. You were under the same roof and they are his and your children. You look after the home and the children and him as well as doing what paid work you can.

Now, a little digression:

Sissynova said "if OP wanted to barely work "
Deathbyfluffy said
"You're finished work by 8am - regardless of start time that's not a huge amount of work."
I see. Let's get one thing straight. Our OP gets up at 2.45 to go to her paid work where she tells us she for "4 hours have worked my tail off"
I believe, Sissynova and Deathbybutterfly, you would not survive one day of our OP's work, let alone carry on to do the work she does at home and for her family. You do not know what you are talking about. You probably sit down to do your "work'. Our OP does not sit down from one minute to the next. You have no right to judge her, no right to decide how hard she works and you display meanness of spirit and cruelty of heart. If you have no desire to support and positively help our OP, then get off the forum. Best of all get off mumsnet.

Now the best kept till last, something I am so sure is absolutely right. I have seen men like the OP's Partner so many times before and this describes them to a tee:

Brighteyes2368
He has NEVER seen you as a partner; he only sees you as a possession. I'm sure he sees the children as his possessions too, but he feels he shouldn't have to take care of them or spend money on them because that is what he has YOU for.

How true. How terrible, and how very true.

She can't say she's contributed to the mortgage when it's just been a bill that came out of the joint account and her partner told her that her money was being used for other bills not the mortgage.

He's been clever. She's shafted.

And that time counts too. You were under the same roof and they are his and your children.

And this just isn't true. It's his house. He could ask her to leave at any time. She has less rights than a lodger.

With teenager children come regular orthodontic appointments in working hours and running around to sports clubs etc after school (none of which are easily accessible by bus!). If I worked FT there would be no way of covering this.

I would be very much not amused if DH declared he wants to quit his job as DC might need to go see a dentist every few months.

LolaSmiles

Yes indeed Lola.

I can tell you even when it was rare for people to live as unmarried Partners in the 70s and 80s, I still saw many married men who used their wives as free labour and regarded the home, car, children and even wife as possessions. My own husband resented that I ate I think! Somehow there is a breed of men who see life as created for them, their possessions as theirs, they cannot share and 'joint ownership' is anathema to them. Of course, the early wedding promise of the wife was, "All my worldly goods I thee endow". Women would be slaves to the home, caring for the children and doing housework while the man had lots of free time for golf and cricket and beer.

It is a shock to me that such men still exist and the trend for women to keep their career and for couples not to make a legal commitment of marriage or suchlike about their relationship enables men to salt away all their salary and the property they invest in so that when he dumps his lady and mother of his children he may sail away a rich man, while the woman is treated like a dismissed member of the household staff, who was not even entitled to be on the payroll.

It's probably only fair to mention that gold-digging women do exist as well and that many an innocent and naive man has been knocked off his feet by love only to be taken for as much as his wife can get in the divorce.

Indeed. @Catlady1978 what do you think those of us that work full time do? There are all kinds of full time jobs with the flexibility to care perfectly well for teenagers and work too.

If your children are his etc then half the family home is yours too regardless of whos name is on the mortgage

Morally? Certainly not legally so what do you mean?

No the house belongs to whoever is on the mortgage and deeds.

If your children are his etc then half the family home is yours too regardless of whos name is on the mortgage

Legally it really isn't

@Thefieldisfallow yes there are types of jobs that allow flexible working but there are also jobs that do not - are we supposed to change career for this? Out of interest then how do you manage these appointments working FT when the appointments are always between 9 & 3.30pm? I’ve spent many years juggling child care on my own including working full time but at present I choose not to do so.

It’s individual choice but in the OP’s case it seems very weighted in the DH’s favour. It would serve her well to get some legal advice. Cohabitation is a complex area of law and depending on what was agreed when the house was purchased can affect her interest in the property.

Please don’t post things like this. You are giving utterly false information with no legal basis and some women might believe you 🙈. The house is owned by the person named as owner on the deeds regardless if they’ve procreated with every other human on the planet. If they were married there might be some claim under marital property rules but even that’s a long shot if he’s the owner and she hasn’t contributed to the mortgage.

@Catlady1978 my children are adults now but we used a mix of annual leave and things like moving lunch times, we shared it between us and just managed.

Totally incorrect.

Really curious why so many people incorrectly think ‘common law’ marriage exists.

It’s who is legal owner aka on the deeds.

In very exceptional circumstances you can establish an equitable interest in someone’s property but it’s very complex and expensive and difficult to prove. The law doesn’t readily give away peoples property rights.

speluncean
you said, 'It's his house. He could ask her to leave at any time. She has less rights than a lodger."
I am not starting an argument and I'm sure you have good reason for saying this. However, I think her having lived there so long, raised children with him, still looking after them there, having paid into the joint account from which the mortgage is paid, means she has the right to think of it as her home and the children need their mother.
If he told her to leave I think he would be starting a court battle.

But you are absolutely right to show how she cannot take anything for granted and needs to get this sorted out.

I think by being in a long relationship as a couple and having children together, the OP giving up her opportunity to work full time while the children were young and at school, but contributing to the house-owner's ability to live in the house and pay the mortgage by looking after his children and him and the house and for all the monetary contributions she has made to the joint account which pays the mortgage, the partner who does not own the house, i.e. the OP, has demonstrated many rights to occupation of the house she calls her home.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/professional_resources/legal/relationship_breakdown/housing_rights_of_cohabiting_sole_homeowners/occupation_rights_if_one_partner_is_the_sole_owner#title-0

@Ellyess I believe, Sissynova and Deathbybutterfly, you would not survive one day of our OP's work, let alone carry on to do the work she does at home and for her family. You do not know what you are talking about. You probably sit down to do your "work'. Our OP does not sit down from one minute to the next.

What are you even talking about?? Op works 4 hours, she has the rest of the day to sit down. Her children are teenagers, she’s not on her hands and knees scrubbing floors for 7 hours while they are at school every day.
Women (and men for that matter) usually work for more than 16 hours a week and still do housework and basic childcare. It’s not that crazy.
It’s not a full time job to do housework while your older children are at school and college.

Do you think parents that work don’t take their children to the dentist, or the doctor or for vaccination, or attend appointments for themselves??
It’s a totally normal part of live and perfectly normal to take an hour or two off work to do this!

Marry him....tomorrow.