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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child maintenance

176 replies

MaxwellCat · 03/07/2023 23:48

Seem to have had this misfortune of joining a fathers for justice maintenance page (I thought it was for general advice boy was I wrong) and it disgusted me how many men think that fathers shouldn't have to pay for their kids if they don't want to. I was asking for advice on my situation as haven't had a maintenance payment in almost 7 years now, but apparently I should leave him alone as I'm "only hurting myself" and if he won't pay willingly I should accept that and move on and also loads of suicides are down to men having to pay child maintenance?! For having to pay for your own children?! They claimed loads of suicides are down to cm. Aibu to want to pursue this even more now as these comments have really annoyed me why on earth shouldn't I try to get what my kids are owed?

OP posts:
YetMoreNewBeginnings · 04/07/2023 16:14

MaxwellCat · 04/07/2023 16:13

Thats what i was asking thank you, that poster is implying i just went on there to start an argument.

There is also whataboutery on maintenance threads - no matter what angle it’s posted from there’s always the “but what about the people the OP wasn’t even talking about anyway” posts

GoingPostalTallyHo · 04/07/2023 16:17

NC for this as I expect some anger.

I agree that it is shit that many men don't pay CM at all, many don't pay enough, women have to take on the lion's share of costs, work etc. Many men shirk their duties. I also agree that OP's ex should pay.

In terms of why the men in the Facebook group might feel how they do, it isn't hard to imagine how - for some men on low incomes and minimum wage - CM payments are a large burden. On separating, a man might need to leave the family home with nothing.

Renting a one bed flat in my area (not SE or London) costs around £800 per month. If the man is on minimum wage (around £1550 per month full time) and has 2 children then he would need to pay £250 per month CMS assuming he doesn't pay into a pension and has the kids 0 nights due to only living in a one bed flat.

He would be left with £450 for the month after rent and child maintenance. It isn't hard to see how this would be financially taxing when he also needs to pay council tax, food and energy. Let alone basic travel, days out with the kids. Then nice to haves like dentist, clothes, birthday + Xmas gifts, pension. Let alone having spare money for treats or saving for an emergency.

If the father has low education, getting a better job might not be that easy. In some roles over-time isnt available. Men in the situation i have described are real and do exist. Yes, he could get a second job, or rent a room instead of a flat.

Additional bitterness from the men is likely to come because the resident parent can claim benefits so 'will be OK'. If she has a low wage she will get universal credit to help with rent and the child costs, council tax benefit. Basically, I'm saying, it isn't that shocking that opinions like you have seen on the Facebook page exist.

However, I also know that not all men paying CMS are in the position I described. And there are many women and children living in poverty.

Happyinmyowncompany · 04/07/2023 16:29

@niceandspicynight Why you still responding to this thread? You are not being helpful to the OP

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 16:52

Happyinmyowncompany · 04/07/2023 16:29

@niceandspicynight Why you still responding to this thread? You are not being helpful to the OP

Sorry but who do you think you are to dictate who can respond to the thread, maybe you should learn what open forums are for. How I post is none of your business.

aSofaNearYou · 04/07/2023 16:53

Yousee · 04/07/2023 16:09

@aSofaNearYou I think you made a tactical error in speaking up for Dads who are actually involved in their child's life and therefore have to provide a home for them, too.
People on this thread have the absent non-paying fuckers in mind and no matter what you say they won't hear about the proper dads.
It always annoys me that it's made out that money has to be spent by mum to count as money spent on the child.
But not as much as these scumbags who actually don't believe they have any obligations to their own children.

Yea, perhaps so. I perhaps should have stayed quiet as it's rarely a subject viewed with any nuance on here, not unlike the FB groups OP saw! It always has to be either/or, rather than a situation that can be difficult for many different people in different circumstances.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 04/07/2023 16:59

aSofaNearYou · 04/07/2023 16:53

Yea, perhaps so. I perhaps should have stayed quiet as it's rarely a subject viewed with any nuance on here, not unlike the FB groups OP saw! It always has to be either/or, rather than a situation that can be difficult for many different people in different circumstances.

You could have started your own thread about those particular fathers rather than jump on the OP, who was posting about her experience of a waste of space father and being jumped on on one of those groups.

People having a shit time with their NRP understandably don’t want to hear about the poor decent NRPs as it’s not remotely relevant to the situation they’re looking for advice on, and comes across as suggesting that all NRP’s are hard done by

Happyinmyowncompany · 04/07/2023 17:01

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 16:52

Sorry but who do you think you are to dictate who can respond to the thread, maybe you should learn what open forums are for. How I post is none of your business.

You have nothing but negativity in all your responses with no valid advise and being very unhelpful.. I asked a you question and you have proved my point.

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 17:02

Happyinmyowncompany · 04/07/2023 17:01

You have nothing but negativity in all your responses with no valid advise and being very unhelpful.. I asked a you question and you have proved my point.

Yawn, yes you proved your point yes yes.

Way to win on the internet, 🙄

aSofaNearYou · 04/07/2023 17:03

@YetMoreNewBeginnings hmm I would agree with you had this been a simple post about an ex not paying, but OP was different from that, discussing the opinions of the men on the FB group. The comments, as a result, were also more generalised than simple advice about her situation. Within that context, I don't think it was inappropriate to do the same but with a somewhat different opinion.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 04/07/2023 17:44

aSofaNearYou · 04/07/2023 17:03

@YetMoreNewBeginnings hmm I would agree with you had this been a simple post about an ex not paying, but OP was different from that, discussing the opinions of the men on the FB group. The comments, as a result, were also more generalised than simple advice about her situation. Within that context, I don't think it was inappropriate to do the same but with a somewhat different opinion.

She was very clear that she’d been jumped on there for looking for maintenance from a deadbeat who hasn’t paid for 7 years.

if you think it was fair enough to essentially do the same here then that’s your opinion. Hardly surprising people didn’t agree with you though.

aSofaNearYou · 04/07/2023 17:56

*She was very clear that she’d been jumped on there for looking for maintenance from a deadbeat who hasn’t paid for 7 years.

if you think it was fair enough to essentially do the same here then that’s your opinion. Hardly surprising people didn’t agree with you though.*

I didn't jump on OP, I didn't even mention her, I think that's pretty obvious from my posts. I posted a general opinion on attitudes on what had by that point become a general discussion about attitudes.

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/07/2023 18:02

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 00:45

Calling a suicide victim pathetic I have heard it all now. I have no time for people like you a waste of my time and oxygen.

Enough already

Everyone is sick of your whataboutery. Go start your own thread and stop derailing this one.

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 18:07

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/07/2023 18:02

Enough already

Everyone is sick of your whataboutery. Go start your own thread and stop derailing this one.

Do you speak for everyone no you don't. So kindly keep options about me to yourself. You have nothing of interest that I care about. 🥱

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/07/2023 18:08

Lala161 · 04/07/2023 13:01

CMS get it wrong a lot of the time, even when provided with correct information, leading to people having to pay far more than they can physically afford. They only take the word of the mother regarding access and nights. She can gain more money by being dishonest, even when you provide solid evidence, and will only change things if you have a court order/mediation etc, which again, another big cost. It’s a very unfair system to men.

No they pay a set percentage which unless they are on a high income is an absolute pittance and in no way a fair contribution to the real costs of raising a child.

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/07/2023 18:11

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 18:07

Do you speak for everyone no you don't. So kindly keep options about me to yourself. You have nothing of interest that I care about. 🥱

You have nothing of interest to say that anyone agrees with judging from the responses you are getting but it hasn't stopped you posting.

Why would you want to keep derailing someone else's thread?

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 18:16

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/07/2023 18:11

You have nothing of interest to say that anyone agrees with judging from the responses you are getting but it hasn't stopped you posting.

Why would you want to keep derailing someone else's thread?

Well it may amaze you to know this is a public forum and not dictated to by the tiny percentage of MN posters who have posted on this thread. So as I have said keep your options about my posting to yourself. I don't care what you think or others that cannot handle different options like mine. If you don't like it don't read it.

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/07/2023 18:20

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 18:16

Well it may amaze you to know this is a public forum and not dictated to by the tiny percentage of MN posters who have posted on this thread. So as I have said keep your options about my posting to yourself. I don't care what you think or others that cannot handle different options like mine. If you don't like it don't read it.

Stop hijacking and derailing the Op's thread.

She came to ask for advice but you are making it all about you. Why are you so arrogant and entitled to think that is acceptable?

Start your own thread.

We see you.

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 18:21

Willyoujustbequiet · 04/07/2023 18:20

Stop hijacking and derailing the Op's thread.

She came to ask for advice but you are making it all about you. Why are you so arrogant and entitled to think that is acceptable?

Start your own thread.

We see you.

Yawn 🥱.....

beAsensible1 · 04/07/2023 18:36

RoomOfRequirement · 04/07/2023 00:42

An example is not 'a lot of men'. And maybe this one shouldn't have been such a pathetic father, only seeing his child on holidays, not close to him, and not paying for so long? But no, let's give him sympathy. Right.

Most mothers don't get the option to be this pathetic.

as if we should feel sorry for a man who sent his son that horrible text trying to put the blame at his feet!

Frogpond · 05/07/2023 02:23

If he is just getting cash then he is probably dodging all sorts of taxes and regulations. Work out what he would be required to where you live and dob in to every possible agency. He might be forced to be honest about his income and then you can go through cms.

glossypeach · 05/07/2023 18:38

oh I’m in a child maintenance group and these dads on there are stating to other dads to ‘go self employed’ so they can fiddle with their tax returns to count their earnings as a loss so they don’t have to pay maintenance. Which is exactly what my child’s dad is doing. It’s barbaric.

Fiddlerdragon · 06/07/2023 17:32

niceandspicynight · 04/07/2023 18:21

Yawn 🥱.....

It’s you boring the tits off everyone

helpsexdrought · 06/07/2023 18:45

Yanbu men who don't pay for their kids or not enough are absolutely one of the lowest form of scum

Gytgyt · 06/07/2023 18:47

glossypeach · 05/07/2023 18:38

oh I’m in a child maintenance group and these dads on there are stating to other dads to ‘go self employed’ so they can fiddle with their tax returns to count their earnings as a loss so they don’t have to pay maintenance. Which is exactly what my child’s dad is doing. It’s barbaric.

Its disgusting in cases like this CMS should request bank statements. It needs to be worded as fraud, against the law and child neglect!

Nepmarthiturn · 06/07/2023 18:48

Plenty of high flyers or decent earners behave professional at work and don't pay fairly for their child. You can believe it even those who just have 1 child!! It happens I'm a prime example!

Huh? You're boasting about not paying for your child? 🤔