Trans etc at school / all going too far?

[Peverellshire]

AIBU to think that there are a growing number of below 16s identifying as opposite gender?

Incidents in school where pupils called out for not acknowledging ‘Brian is now fully Bryony’. Etc. As example.

AIBU to think that these sensitive discussions and explorations should all be realised, if appropriate, post school, when children are young adults? For many reasons. Pref Pronouns in primary school, ok?

By subjugating yourself and using 'cis' you are contributing to this debacle.

Get off your knees and stop simping for abusive men.

But, oh no, there's no social contagion here. 🤨

@FatGirlSwim

Do you think that it is a good idea to encourage children to disassociate with their bodies? We are our bodies. Even Mermaids has backed off from the 'born in the wrong body' line of thought.

And cis is seen as offensive on this site so please be respectful and refrain from using it.

Would you really be happy to have the genitalia and physical body of the opposite sex, if you could continue to live exactly as you are?

I find this idea that you get to pick and choose your body parts like you're Mr Potato Head very odd.

You have the body you were born with. Any kind of 'reassignment' surgery doesn't give you opposite sex genitalia - medicine is not capable of this. It would give you a really limited and experimental facsimile that is highly likely to cause you medical problems for the rest of your life.

How do you know that you feel like a woman ?

I mean, clearly you ARE a woman because of your material reality, but how do you feel like one outwith associating with gendered stereotypes?

And sadly with major chances of issues. I know of a transman who was very happy with their fake penis. Until it rotted and fell off.

If you know that being trans is often a mask for other issues, including puberty related ones, and affirmation will lead to a medical pathway that will sterilise and destroy a healthy body, with limited chances of success, isn't the better option to say fine, but we will not treat you any differently. So no celebrations, no special clubs, no forcing people to refer to you in a certain way, no using the facilities or sportsteams of the opposite sex, no power, no extra attention. You be you, nothing more, nothing less.

This. Could not have put it better. My DC's secondary school has a drip, drip, drip feed of propaganda and disputed facts. Not so much in lessons (though we have teacher friends who reprot worrying lessons in their own schools) but through the LGBTQ+ group and other student lead things (when they write their own assemblied etc). It is great that the LGB kids have somewhere to discuss coming out or dating issues but the TQ element seems to be causing a really worrying amount of social contagion. With girl, after girl changing identity - the ones that change first and loudest usally come from very conservative backgrounds where being gay is not acceptable. None of them would accept any kind of resistance or any otehr opinion. It is really, regressive and worrying.

I wish the gvernment would ban the TQ element of clubs - kids should not be transing other kids. It is something for medical staff.

I also wish the government would suspend all teaching of PSE/RSE in schools until they've brought out this guidance they keep promising - and the guidance when it comes should be a legal requirement not a wish list.

Cis is not offensive. I won’t have my language policed. You don’t get to dictate how I describe myself. A word can only be offensive if it offends the target. I am the target, and I’m not offended.

Nor do you get to speak for mn as a whole. It’s become a very terfy place but knees are most definitely not a homogenous mass 🫤

Do you think people who transition are stupid? Do you think they haven’t researched the surgery? To me, that tells me just how distressed someone is by their gender identity not matching their physical body, that they will accept that risk as an improvement.

So you’re essentially saying ‘be you, but we won’t accept who you say you are’… and you wonder why people don’t want to accept that?

Cis is offensive.

😂😂😂😂

To you perhaps. Not to me.
Terfy views are offensive to me. But you seem to value free speech when it comes to those.

Trans people can't accept who are they are.

Cis is offensive to me. I do not “identify” with oppressive and constricted gender roles and stereotypes. I’ve spent my long life in active protest against them, and my work is to unpick them.

You find women who believe that humans can't change sex and are concerned about the impact of unnecessary surgeries on healthy bodies offensive?

You believe that we need a prefix to say which women are not men?

Wow.

That was @FatGirlSwim

Lots of assumptions there. Wildly inaccurate ones that are only showing me how one dimensional these arguments are. It’s just regurgitating the same arguments that just don’t stand up as far as I’m concerned. And when none of you can have a reasonable or respectful discussion, it doesn’t really do you any favours.

If I’m contributing, great, as an ally and supporter of the trans community.

Which 'arguments don't stand up - as far you're concerned'?

Do you approve of that man 'breastfeeding' his baby?

Let's start there.

I do feel like a lot of people who object to the term cis- react as though it is a disparaging nickname that has just been invented for them.

Which I guess would be understandable if it was, but it's actually just a slightly nerdy prefix that means "not trans".

If you're standing in central London, transpontine means the other (south) side of the river, cispontine is the side you're currently on. Also "transalpine" and "cisalpine" if you're in the alps.

So you might feel like saying "I'm not a cis woman, I'm just a woman" but a better comparison is something like the term "right-handed" - would you say "I am not right-handed, I'm just 'handed'"? I mean, that would be weird, right? Especially if you were in the middle of a discussion about why some people find it difficult to use your scissors.

I have no problem with someone being genuinely trans.

How would you know someone of school age was "genuinely trans" without 20 years of hindsight? One of the frightening things about the Tavistock GIDS was how many of the staff - the most professional, trained, experienced people in the country! - told Hannah Barnes that they couldn't tell which young people were going to change their mind and who wasn't. Even the most determined and desperate to transition sometimes changed their minds.

Which I guess would be understandable if it was, but it's actually just a slightly nerdy prefix that means "not trans".

Why do we need a word other than woman. That is what we are. We don't need to spell out that we are not men.

Trans woman and woman work perfectly well.

In addition if you adopt cis you are accepting a belief system than many, me included don't have. Cis apparently means that your gender aligns with your sex. But I don't have a gender. I just am me. A woman.

I guess @lifeturnsonadime the whole point is for the vast majority of people that is the case, just like being right-handed. It's just that in the context of a discussion specifically about trans people, if you take that position, then your position would also be that trans men, e.g. my colleague Frank who was female at birth but transitioned years ago and now looks like Rob Delaney, are women. A lot of people would find that a confusing position to take. But it's back to the scissors analogy - I don't go round calling myself right-handed all day long, but sometimes it's relevant!

Culturally, it is a disparaging term that has been repurposed, and it is either used as a slur, or by allies who seem willing to adopt it to appease.

It means not trans, but by the same token trans identified males are calling themselves "women", trans identified females are calling themselves "men" and removing the trans prefix.
The rest of the population is defined by being "cis" as in "not trans", which positions us as a subset of our own sex class.
Well fuck that, and the horse it rode in on.

Replace "cis" with real or normal and see if thats deemed offensive or not by those who "identify as".

Which is ok, but nobody has the right to tell me I can’t use cis to describe myself, as I do hold that belief system.