Is my manager being cruel?

[Thistulipisblooming]

I am 34, and work in a public sector. I’ve been in my job over 2 years and I’ve never taken a day off sick (not that it matters if I had)

My grandma has cancer and is now at end of life and coming towards her last days. I don’t have any annual leave to spend with her so I put in a request for special leave (which we get 2/3 weeks full paid). My grandma is also technically my mum, which makes this more complicated. My mum walked out when I was 3 and my grandma took over- I see her as my mum, she is my mum. She raised me.

So I spoke to my manager about this special leave and she said “oh it’s reserved for close living relatives, such as partner, children and mum and dad” so I explained that yes, my grandmother technically is my mum.

and she has refused the leave on the grounds that, as my grandma isn’t biologically my mum that it would be frowned upon as others have had to take it unpaid or on sick for their grandparents.

So now I will have to take it as sick, but unfortunately this is only statutory which won’t go far and she said should I put on your sick leave register now that you’re depressed? As she didn’t know what to put it under as I am not technically sick.

I want to take it to HR possibly but not sure if my emotions are getting the better of me so WIBU to request this leave?

All the advice telling her to just get signed off/just say she was your legal guardian (lie effectively) are the reason businesses need strict policies in place, to stop employees taking the P

Of course she is being cruel.

OP I don't know if anyone has said yet, but cancer is a disability and discrimination by association with a disabled person is illegal. You should complain to HR and say this. Also say that your grandmother raised you. Are you in a union? If you're public sector there should be a union so you can join it and speak to them. Even if you are a new member, I'm sure they can at least advise you.

Whatever the nature of your employment they have a special leave provision for close relatives. This is your only close relative (you havent mentioned a father). It's discriminatory to refuse. Other people would get this leave for their mothers, you wont -you should be able to do so for your grandmother.

Go over her head if you can.

That's insane. I would absolutely speak with HR.

Just because she's not your biological mother that doesn't take away the fact she was your legal guardian and your beloved grandmother.

FFS.

I'm a former public sector worker. We had policy and legislation to cover what we did, because without policy etc each individual worker would do exactly what they thought best. Policy is there to prevent that so there is consistency, anything that was out of the ordinary was still dealt with within the policy but by a panel of senior officers. And there was still some guidance. The point I made earlier was that the manager here is keeping to the policy as she must. If the OP thinks there might be extenuating circumstances she puts it in writing and asks HR if there is any leeway or other way.

Absolutely talk to HR I would have no qualms in approving special leave or compassionate leave. There are many types of families these days, she needs to be less rigid

Your manager is a cunt. HR all the way.

She sounds junior, or out of touch. I would support a colleague fully and facilitate this time. I probably wouldn’t have done that 10 years ago when more junior (I would have been more concerned about being equitable amongst staff). I would write to your manager asking them to reconsider and then escalate if they say no. Dear manager, I’ve had time to reflect on our conversation and would invite you to reconsider the option to facilitate compassionate leave to allow me to be with my dying grandma. My grandma has been my legal guardian since xxxxx and continue with a brief context and a final request to reconsider. If she says no, then escalate.

I suspect if you did a straw poll of colleagues, they would say that your grandma counts as close enough, and would not see it as unfair. Your manager needs to stop hiding behind "other people might complain" and make a reasonable decision. (Hopefully HR will override...)

This is the most sensible post on this thread.
Imagine if the rest of the colleagues found out she'd been granted it for her grandmother - they'd want the same.
In my opinion, discretion should be to allow as mother, on the understanding she wouldn't then take the same for her actual mother.

If you get nowhere with HR, are you in a union? They may be able to help.

I'm so sorry about your grandma's illness. You must be in bits.

Take it to HR. This happened to a colleague of mine when her grandfather died. Her mom was a single mom and she lived with her granddad too so he was basically her dad. Our manager was horrible about it and she went higher and got sorted. Not nice to have to step out and do that when you're grieving though.
I'm very sorry for your loss.

There is definitely room for manoeuvre and for manager's discretion in the special leave policy at the NHS Trust I work at. The max amount of leave allowed in total is fixed, but the relationships compassionate leave is allowed for is at the manager's discretion. As a manager I'd definitely allow it for a grandparent who raised the person.

I don’t think the manager is cruel. I think they are just sticking to the policy. However there is a special circumstance here and some discretion should be used. Perhaps there is a compromise what if they paid you some paid leave and the rest unpaid?

I think the manager has made an error by not pushing it up the ladder but some of the stick they are getting (especially after the correction that the OP does not work in the public sector) is harsh.

PLEASE READ THE OP'S POSTS (THERE ARE ONLY TWO.)

SHE DOES NOT WORK IN THE NHS !!!

SHE WORKS IN AN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL.

THERE IS NO LINE MANAGER.

THE PERSON WHO WILL MAKE THIS DECISION IS THE HEAD TEACHER

PLEASE STOP SHOUTING!
You are wrong, there is a line manager - OPs first post says her manager refused. That's the definition of a line manager. You can't say that the Head Teacher will make the decision - if this is the governors rule then it will be them. Head Teachers don't necessarily make the rules, especially in a private school.

Elsewhere you asked how I knew she had other leave offered. Neuter she said so. The line manager only refused leave with full pay - not any other leave, and they specifically advised the OP to take sick leave.

As for those saying how cruel this is, I'm sorry but her grandmother is alive. She isn't bereaved. She's asking for 2 - 3 weeks fully paid leave ( which may extend to an unspecified further period of leave) before she loses her grandmother, and that's before. Then there will be more leave. This isn't about whether she should be allowed to have leave - it's been allowed, and even if it hasn't, she could take sick leave. As she was advised to.

Maybe everyone here, whether private or public sector, have employers who allow lengthy fully paid leave outside normal sick leave or annual leave. If that's the case, please post who you work for so everyone can get a job with these ( incredibly generous) employers.

Ours wouldn't allow it either. But I agree it's a shitty policy.

We can take up to two weeks (every 2 years) paid carer's leave though - which you would be able to use in these circs.

So check for other relevant policies. I know 2 weeks isn't much but it helps.

@Quveas I am not shouting.

The upper case is there so posters may read before the post.

I don't agree with you, sorry.

I taught in independent schools. Yes, governors make decisions but this type of decision would be the Head's.

I don't set much store by the OP's use of the word 'manager'.
Because she says in one post she is in the public sector and in post two she is in an independent school , so her terminology isn't accurate.

I assume she is admin/ other, not teaching staff because teaching staff would go to the Head with this. She may have a 'manager' if she is admin but most private schools have a small team for admin. She's completely free to take it to the Head Teacher.

Ultimately it IS the Head's decision.

I'm so sorry about your grandma. Your manager is being harsh.

But yes as pp's have said she is not technically your mum. Your mum is technically your mum although she didn't raise you.

I am not sure if your manager is being cruel as not sure if this is a pattern of behaviour or a one off. S/he may genuinely be thinking that s/he is following HR protocol and being a bit blind to the nuances.

If not cruel it’s a bit incompetent. I would go to HR and talk to them about your relationship with your grandma as you have described here, and request compassionate leave. It should not go in as sick leave. Absolutely not with a made-up reason, that’s for sure.

Can you go off sick with stress? Ask the GP to sign you off?

Your manager is being cruel.

Maybe everyone here, whether private or public sector, have employers who allow lengthy fullypaid leave outside normal sick leave or annual leave. If that's the case, please post who you work for so everyone can get a job with these ( incredibly generous) employers.

I asked the same question earlier and strangely no one revealed who their extraordinarily generous employers were.

And she expects a decent day's graft from you? Deluded person to be polite.
Take it higher op.
Assure them you have no dgm's posing as your dm in the wings...