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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is my manager being cruel?

194 replies

Thistulipisblooming · 26/06/2023 12:42

I am 34, and work in a public sector. I’ve been in my job over 2 years and I’ve never taken a day off sick (not that it matters if I had)

My grandma has cancer and is now at end of life and coming towards her last days. I don’t have any annual leave to spend with her so I put in a request for special leave (which we get 2/3 weeks full paid). My grandma is also technically my mum, which makes this more complicated. My mum walked out when I was 3 and my grandma took over- I see her as my mum, she is my mum. She raised me.

So I spoke to my manager about this special leave and she said “oh it’s reserved for close living relatives, such as partner, children and mum and dad” so I explained that yes, my grandmother technically is my mum.

and she has refused the leave on the grounds that, as my grandma isn’t biologically my mum that it would be frowned upon as others have had to take it unpaid or on sick for their grandparents.

So now I will have to take it as sick, but unfortunately this is only statutory which won’t go far and she said should I put on your sick leave register now that you’re depressed? As she didn’t know what to put it under as I am not technically sick.

I want to take it to HR possibly but not sure if my emotions are getting the better of me so WIBU to request this leave?

OP posts:
Worriedmama82 · 26/06/2023 15:07

Definitely go to HR she is being very unkind

Makemyday99 · 26/06/2023 15:10

Worriedmama82 · 26/06/2023 15:07

Definitely go to HR she is being very unkind

Go to HR because she’s unkind?! Jesus wept

Movinghouseatlast · 26/06/2023 15:15

Yes your manager is wrong. I was also brought up by my grandparents.

This is your mum who you need to be with, she is the only mum you have known. Go to HR.

Dinkler · 26/06/2023 15:28

Your manager is an arsehole.

Dinkler · 26/06/2023 15:29

Makemyday99 · 26/06/2023 15:10

Go to HR because she’s unkind?! Jesus wept

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Well she is isn't she, she's blocking a member of her team taking special leave on compassionate grounds. That's more than unkind.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 26/06/2023 15:30

Oof this one is tough from all sides.

Sorry OP, it’s hard to lose someone that close.

I don’t think your manager is wrong, they have to enforce the policy. It’s unclear if they have discretion here or if this leave will require any documentation.

I would go to HR and see if they have discretion. But I would be careful how you word things. Try statements like “My grandma who raised me after my mum left when I was 3 years old” “I understand the policy, but am hoping for an exemption” ‘I understand that manager may not discretion” “I understand the intent of the policy is for family members who are closer than the typical grandparent relationship”.

Makemyday99 · 26/06/2023 15:31

Dinkler · 26/06/2023 15:29

Well she is isn't she, she's blocking a member of her team taking special leave on compassionate grounds. That's more than unkind.

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But she’s not obligated to agree to it if it’s not company policy, just because you don’t think its kind doesn’t make it wrong, the entitlement of some employees is absolutely ridiculous.

GoldfincTart · 26/06/2023 15:34

ItsNotRocketSalad · 26/06/2023 15:02

The "outrage", which is actually just normal human compassion, is that the OP can have the time off fully paid if the manager would apply her discretion sensibly.

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Clearly, as some of the managers posting here have made plain, it's not possible in a lot of places to take three weeks paid leave in any kind of compassionate-leave circumstance. I think someone in the public sector has stated that their organisation allows only a maximum of 3 days, whatever the situation.

So please tell me, everyone here who's so insistent that the OP is being treated cruelly by being denied three-weeks paid leave, where do you work? I'd love to know so I can advise younger members of my family where to set their career sights.

SeatonCarew · 26/06/2023 15:41

To me this is quite clearly a more complex HR matter, not one to be decided on the hoof by your manager.

Approach HR in writing in a business like manner and explain your grandmother exclusively raised you from the age of three and therefore stood in loco parentis. She is the only parent figure you have ever known. Ask them what the arrangements for compassionate leave are under these circumstances.

Good luck OP, and I'm sorry for your troubles.

azlazee1 · 26/06/2023 15:43

Go to HR.

Makemyday99 · 26/06/2023 15:43

GoldfincTart · 26/06/2023 15:34

Clearly, as some of the managers posting here have made plain, it's not possible in a lot of places to take three weeks paid leave in any kind of compassionate-leave circumstance. I think someone in the public sector has stated that their organisation allows only a maximum of 3 days, whatever the situation.

So please tell me, everyone here who's so insistent that the OP is being treated cruelly by being denied three-weeks paid leave, where do you work? I'd love to know so I can advise younger members of my family where to set their career sights.

Show quote history

No one will be able to answer that because it doesn’t exist, those claiming the manager is cruel are the same entitled people that would probably expect a weeks paid leave if their cat died

EsmeSusanOgg · 26/06/2023 15:43

SeatonCarew · 26/06/2023 15:41

To me this is quite clearly a more complex HR matter, not one to be decided on the hoof by your manager.

Approach HR in writing in a business like manner and explain your grandmother exclusively raised you from the age of three and therefore stood in loco parentis. She is the only parent figure you have ever known. Ask them what the arrangements for compassionate leave are under these circumstances.

Good luck OP, and I'm sorry for your troubles.

This seems the most sensible approach.

C152 · 26/06/2023 15:45

I'm very sorry for the tought time you're going through, OP. I second others suggesting you should take whatever time you need to spend with your grandmother, while you can.

It doesn't seem to me that your manager is being mean; it just suggests you work for a terrible organisation (of which there are many). If the policy is that special leave is reserved for specified family members like parents and children, then she is right that it would be unfair to make an exception for you and not others.

bonzaitree · 26/06/2023 15:45

I understand why they have the policy because everyone’s grandparents sadly have periods of illness and die.

what’s not fair is that they’re not taking your personal circs into account

Ponoka7 · 26/06/2023 15:47

You need to start referring to your GM as your kinship carer. I take it that it was before PR came into being? She must be down somewhere as your legally recognised carer to oversee your education and health, did she get your a childhood passport? Take it all to HR, you are entitled to this leave. Don't have depression put on your sick leave, grief is perfectly acceptable.

weirdoboelady · 26/06/2023 15:47

I think the term 'looked after child' is a good one which might be the key to unlocking this. Your GM was your guardian from the age of 3 - are they seriously suggesting that anyone who doesn't have an actual blood relative should be deprived any leave relating to parents?

SeatonCarew · 26/06/2023 15:48

C152 · 26/06/2023 15:45

I'm very sorry for the tought time you're going through, OP. I second others suggesting you should take whatever time you need to spend with your grandmother, while you can.

It doesn't seem to me that your manager is being mean; it just suggests you work for a terrible organisation (of which there are many). If the policy is that special leave is reserved for specified family members like parents and children, then she is right that it would be unfair to make an exception for you and not others.

This isn't right though is it, because the OP will not be asking on a future date for any leave related to her biological mother. That time is now for her, and reasonable accommodation should be made for that.

J0S · 26/06/2023 15:49

I had a similar problem when I worked in the NHS. Id been there for 17 years with about 3 days sick leave in total. I asked for compassion leave as my 12 year old step child ( who lived with us full time ) was terminally ill in hospital . I was refused and told it would only be granted if I could show my name on their birth certificate or adoption certificate .

I had all sorts of other documents ( like school letters and child benefit letter ) to show my step child lived with me but that wasn’t good enough.

He died a few weeks later 😰

Mariposista · 26/06/2023 15:50

OP my heart is breaking for you. I had the exact same relationship with my grandmother and I lost her 3 months ago. I am 2 years younger than you, and SE. It's awful, and you have my full sympathy and I send you my thoughts and prayers.
You manager is ridiculous. 'Close family?' I was closer to my gran than any of her children except my mum. We did everything for her care.
Take is as sick, take it unpaid if you have to. But be there for your gran. There will be time for work, plenty of it, you have half of your working life ahead of you and so little time with her.
God bless and all the best OP.

Honeyroar · 26/06/2023 15:53

The big company I used to work for would have said exactly the same. And unless she was your legal guardian they’d not have accepted “she raised me” as enough. I agree it’s wrong, cruel and upsetting, but those were their rules. One time my husband was very ill in hospital on two consecutive summers and I was worried because I was out of leave and had gone into the first level of monitoring for sickness. My husband was in intensive care. My manager rang me on his personal mobile and said “this company wouldn’t think twice about getting rid of you if the shit hit the fan, so you just do what you need to do and don’t even think about work”. He was right. Two years later Covid hit and the company got rid of thousands of employees. I went sick. And I was - I was so stressed and upset I couldn’t have functioned at work anyway. So it’s not lying, as someone insinuated earlier.

Get to your grandma first. Go sick, get advice from a union if you can. But get to your gran. You don’t know how much longer you have..

Jumbojade · 26/06/2023 15:53

I was working for the NHS when my dm (I was her carer) had a terminal stroke and died several days later. I phoned my manager and explained the situation. She said the most she could give me was 3 days Carers/Special leave and 3 days bereavement and if I needed any more I would have to use Annual or Unpaid Leave. So I did get 6 days paid, but definitely not 2/3 weeks.

LifeIsPainHighness · 26/06/2023 15:55

Lougle · 26/06/2023 12:45

Was your GM your legal guardian? I think you should go above your manager.

This!! Very heartless behaviour

LoisPrice · 26/06/2023 15:58

go to your gp and get signed off sick with stress, this is a very stressful time for you atm.

loislovesstewie · 26/06/2023 16:00

Unfortunately I think your manager can only apply the rules as they are, quite often they don't have discretion to give you exactly what you want. That can happen anywhere about anything, there are policies to cover certain situations but those can't adapt to suit all circumstances. . Go to HR, tell them what you have said here, explain that you were brought up by GM and ask if there is any leeway or other policy that might apply.

Viviennemary · 26/06/2023 16:01

It is a shame but Ithink your manager is in the right. Paid compassionate leave isnt usually extended to grandparents but maybe it could be and is at your manager's discretion. You could try going over her head. If you work in the public sector sick leave isn't usually statutory.
.