Is my manager being cruel?

[Thistulipisblooming]

I am 34, and work in a public sector. I’ve been in my job over 2 years and I’ve never taken a day off sick (not that it matters if I had)

My grandma has cancer and is now at end of life and coming towards her last days. I don’t have any annual leave to spend with her so I put in a request for special leave (which we get 2/3 weeks full paid). My grandma is also technically my mum, which makes this more complicated. My mum walked out when I was 3 and my grandma took over- I see her as my mum, she is my mum. She raised me.

So I spoke to my manager about this special leave and she said “oh it’s reserved for close living relatives, such as partner, children and mum and dad” so I explained that yes, my grandmother technically is my mum.

and she has refused the leave on the grounds that, as my grandma isn’t biologically my mum that it would be frowned upon as others have had to take it unpaid or on sick for their grandparents.

So now I will have to take it as sick, but unfortunately this is only statutory which won’t go far and she said should I put on your sick leave register now that you’re depressed? As she didn’t know what to put it under as I am not technically sick.

I want to take it to HR possibly but not sure if my emotions are getting the better of me so WIBU to request this leave?

Do you have an HR dept you can go to?

She is being very cruel imo.

I wouldn’t worry about legalities. You might not know full situation eg ss involvement, family fostering.
From your point of view she is your mum, you have no contact with birth mum.
I’d check policy and refer to hr and request special leave.

@Quveas how can you work for a company like that? I would give any of my team exactly what they needed and I would fight for it if I had to. Luckily I don't.

I'm really sorry to hear about your grandma. Unfortunately if you work in the public sector, your manager probably doesn't have the discretion to grant you compassionate leave, regardless of the fact that your grandma brought you up, unless she is your legal guardian. But I would have thought you could take unpaid leave?

So not public sector. Private education is not in the public sector.

End of term is coming up - is there any way they might be able to flex around that?

Your manager is being a jobsworth.
I had a manager like this before and it was exhausting - I feel for you OP. I would definitely be taking it to HR

really sorry to hear about your Grandma 💐hope you are looking after yourself xxxxx

Oh come off it - plenty of companies have rules, and whether I like them or not is irrelevant. We do not have the discretion to give 2 or 3 weeks fully paid leave for ANYTHING. Maybe some parts of the public sector could, but we find that in the public sector people like those posting on this thread start screaming about our GENEROUS terms, LAZY staff and how they are PAYING all these taxes for us. So don't start on what we can and can't afford - unlimited time off with full pay isn't on the cards. We would expect people to be signed off - for which they DO get full pay, although it would be then subject to managing sickness processes at 2 / 3 weeks - ours kicks in after 9 days in any year.

Anyway - the OP doesn't work in the public sector at all which explains a lot.

How much leave did you request?

Agree with all the above.
Im impressed at 2-3 weeks compassionate leave though, the NHS trust I worked for only allowed up to 3 days for a close relative!
When my mum was dying and I was looking after her as well as working I ended up having to take sick leave (with genuine stress) because of this policy.
Sorry about your Grandma, I hope you resolve the situation.

Why does the first sentence in this thread say you work in the public sector, when you don't at all? You've said in a later post that you work in private education.

I'm so sorry about your grandma/mum.

To me it sounds like your manager is being thoughtless and too "computer says no" rather than deliberately cruel, but of course you know her and I don't.

Have you dealt with HR at this company? It's unlikely they'll intervene as your manager is acting within the law and company policy.

I would find some articles online explaining how the definition of a close family member can be interpreted, from good sources (employment charities or lawyers) and show them to your manager. I hope she'll reconsider.

I hope OP gets her leave.

I've spent my life working in the private sector. In 20012, after my mum had been suffering cancer for a couple of years, she declined suddenly and we were told that she had only a few weeks to live. I was working for a major international media company and they refused to grant me more than a week (which I had to take as AL) to look after her so she could die in her own home. I was a manager and had been with them for five years. I had to resign in order to spend the last weeks nursing her.

I don't want to seem mean-minded. But there are still millions of people who work in private businesses with no HR department or, where HR exists, there are strict rules and people get no more than a few days off for compassionate leave. Knowing this, the automatic assumption aired here — that everyone's entitled to weeks off and that a manager who doesn't automatically allow it is 'disgusting' and lacks EQ — seems... well, the word 'entitled' is one that springs to mind. As I said, I hope the OP finds a way to be with her grandmother.

Stress.
Phone the doctor and explain that your mum is dying (cry if you can) and that you need a sick line for work. They will probably suggest that they put down stress.
It's a very stressful time. Chances are you will end up there from morning to night (probably overnight as well) helping care for her.
Tell your boss you're too stressed to concentrate on work.

What difference would that make? She’ll just be marked as off sick & have to claim ssp. Her boss hasn’t said she can’t take the time off sick just that it won’t be on compassionate grounds on full pay

Someone’s next of kin (in terms of healthcare) can be whomever they want it to be, so if you haven’t got anyone else already recorded as your NOK (different from “who to contact in case of emergency”) just say she’s your next of kin.

You were a looked after child which gives DGM Foster-mother status. This is the area to take to HR. And shame the fuckers, really shame them. How dare they treat you like this.

Don't be ridiculous! There's few more stressful situations than losing a loved one.

One way or another, @Thistulipisblooming, take the time off. You'll regret it forever if you don't.

Take care x

I don’t understand what all the outrage is, she is allowed to take the time off unpaid or sick, they’re not refusing her leave just the grounds she is taking it. It also would depend on how long it’s for, as sad as it is to the employee, employers are not obliged to accommodate every member of staff’s personal circumstances & bending rules for one sets a precedent to other staff. I’m not saying I agree just that I understand

Private education isn’t public sector…….

I wonder if you've really confused your manager with using the term 'technically' wrong.

Your grandma isn't technically your mum. She is technically your grandma. Someone raising you doesn't make them technically your mum or dad, you were raised by your grandma.

I think your manager is just abiding by policies tbh which have to be fair for everyone. It is really hard to be in your shoes, but businesses couldn't sustain every worker getting a couple of weeks off for all four grandparents, both parents, however many siblings etc.

I'm so sorry your grandmother is sick. In your situation I would say "I need to take the time, I am really sad and if you can't approve it as compassionate then I would like to request unpaid leave" - why she isn't using her discretion I don't know.

The "outrage", which is actually just normal human compassion, is that the OP can have the time off fully paid if the manager would apply her discretion sensibly.

You're getting mixed up. Nobody uses technically in this way.

It would be correct to say 'she's technically my grandma but really she's my mum'

I would agree if they were refusing the leave under any circumstances but to apply company policy to an employee in order to maintain fairness/equality ..how dare they 🙄

Please don't encourage people to get signed off sick. That is never the answer and horrendously unfair to colleagues and the business left holding their workload.

Op, I run a business with DH and had to balance full time work and caring/spending time with my dying father earlier this year. You have my absolute sympathy - wherever you are, you're stressing about something else.

Can you cancel any prebooked leave and use that instead? it's unusual to have no leave at all only half way through the year. You may not want to take holidays if you've lost a loved one.