Loveless marriage VS commitment to family

[hoven]

AIBU to suggest that committing to stay in a marriage for your children is more important to show your children than showing them an 'example of a happy relationship'?

In marriages without abuse or toxicity of course

There's definitely a lot of grey space between a completely divorce and a happy marriage.

Lots of couples undoubtedly give up on marriages (and families) too easily. Those who have affairs, or who leave because "there no love anymore" as if love is something you just have or don't.

You have to work at love. It's something two people make an effort at, especially once you've had kids and life stresses. Relationships are HARD, any relationship including friendship. If you want it to last, you need to take the rough with the smooth.

But equally if someone's been unhappy for 5 years for example, and actually doesn't like or respect their partner, then I suspect all parties would be happier in the long run for the relationship to end.

I think in a situation where both parties have ALL of the following they might be able to maintain a loveless marriage ('marriage in name only =MINO) in peace and maintain a modicum of sanity and 'peace of mind':

• completely honest with each other

• financially equal AND comfortable

• can agree on how to handle family expenses

• equal in 'lack of feeling' for each other (this is very important)

• can agree on their 'non-marital' lifestyle (ie both agree on open marriage or celibacy), AND

• have a big enough home to carve out separate spaces

But honestly, how often do all those circumstances fall in alignment? Almost never. And if they do at the moment of 'agreement', how long will that last? Probably not very long. It's a pipe dream. It usually transpires that one party feels more, is financially dependent, wants sexual freedom, doesn't carry their share of the household drudgery and child responsibilities, etc etc.

Someone may be able to deceive themselves into thinking they are happy, but that's usually the partner in the catbird seat. The partner who feels more, does more, or has less will invariably be unhappy. If someone divorces and is unhappy, at least that's something they can acknowledge and work on, whereas if someone stays in a MINO they must try to convince themselves that they are happy, or else they must confront the question "Why am I really here?". And 'for the children' will not make that person truly happy. They'll just be 'unhappy for a reason'.

And I believe that children can sense a 'lack of love' in their parents just as keenly as they can sense the love that a happily married couple have for each other. So even if a couple can rub along somewhat peacefully in a MINO they are teaching their children that it's just fine to 'settle' for someone they don't love in order to attain the goal of 'marriage and children' rather than to seek a real and meaningful love.

DH and I have been married over 35 years. We've had our good times and our bad times. But our children have always known that through good and bad we have a deep and abiding love for each other. I'm sure that neither of us would have been able to maintain a facade of love in a MINO. Nor would either of us have wanted to.

Great post @AcrossthePond55

I am the one who ‘feels more’ in a MINO and it is torture. I have given DH an ultimatum that we need to properly work on the relationship (both of us, not just me) or we need to split.

It is no good for the children to be in this situation, they do sense the lack of love, just as you say. So ‘staying for the kids’ is a misnomer.

I agree OP and I would have put staying together as a family over my own happiness.....my soon to be ex husband however put himself first and chose not to

I know that I could not commit to staying in a loveless marriage. And I cannot see how doing so would be of much psychological benefit to my children. It must be horrible for kids to see their parents live without love, or hope, and even worse to discover as a young adult they did this for your ‘benefit’. I’ve been in an unhappy relationship (pre children) and, for me, it meant an unhappy ( or just greyer) life. I think that when one is in a loveless relationship, it’s easy to forget the colour, energy and joy a strong relationship can bring to your life (not to mention the sex, I couldn’t easily give up that either). It is hard to imagine just how much more lovely the alternative might be, especially if there’s a scary path to walk.

DH’s parents divorced when their children were young. Their marriage and subsequent relationship was far from loveless. They rather adored each other, but were not suited to being married. The family still remained a family, they sometimes holidayed together, sometimes apart, DFIL had flat around the corner, he was involved in family life and close to his boys, they both had happy subsequent relationships, with people much better suited to them at that stage in their lives. None of their boys would ever suggest that the divorce wasn’t, at the end of the day, the right thing for everyone.

@hoven

a loveless marriage does not equal an unhappy life.

It depends how you define "loveless". If you mean "sexless" or with very little romance, then yes I think it is possible to come to an accomodation with someone for a bit, although often that is just buying time. It's fairly naive to think this will work forever: at some point one or the other of you will want to find the sex and romance you're not getting and the person who is left behind in this scenario will feel resentful and cheated. So it's theoretically possible but in practice I think quite unlikely this could be sustained indefinitely.

If you mean a marriage without respect or friendship or affection, never mind sex, then I would totally disagree. At its most fundamental, marriage should be a team which involves two people pulling in the same direction and sustaining one another and, (if there are kids involved) prioritising their children's needs.

With two people who disagree with each other on major points (values, politics, friends, ethics) or have wildly different emotional registers or needs or different lifestyle goals, it will become increasingly difficult to keep this project together. The logic in having two people legally yoked together if they are at odds on all the important things in life will eventually collapse in on itself and the tension between those two people will be unbearable for the children at the centre of it. And it sends a very damaging message to children that people need to reconcile wildly different perspectives "for the family". It tells them at some level that they shouldn't expect their needs to be met in the family.

OP you sound so sad and weary.

I wouldn’t want my children brought up in an unhappy marriage. When do they see you laugh, dance around the kitchen with your husband, hold his hand, sneak kisses and the kids go ewwwwe. This is what you deny your children when you are in a loveless marriage. They really deserve to know how much their parents love each other it is so fundamental to their sense of worth.

if you can’t do this you can all be so much happier out of the marriage.

That's hilarious.

I divorced my ex when the DS were teens but stayed in the house until they both left for uni as I paid the mortgage and bills anyway.

I bought my own place outright after and supported the DS through uni and still do assist if they need it.

I bought a power boat last year with the cash I don't spend on EX H. My pension fund is all mine to spend too. I have no interest in another relationship as I have a great time without one. Mediocre, I don't think so!

You are quite clearly projecting but to give you the opposite view from person experience, I am in a perfectly happy step family situation

If my parents had stayed together when they were quite clearly unhappy with each other then I would have considered them terrible parents and terrible role models.

Children of all ages can pick up on unhappy environments and living in that every day that will have a bigger detriment on them long term than families who split and are then happy afterwards

OP you seem quite firm on your views that divorce = everyone being unhappy. Fair enough if that’s your experience but it’s not everybody’s

Very inspirational and similar to my attitude (once i no longer have to think of anyone but myself on a day to day basis).

A loveless marriage sounds awful because if there is no love of any kind then how can it really work? Love can come in many forms but the word loveless also conjures up no respect, no compatibility, no liking.

When you say loveless OP do you really mean all absence of any level of love or just romantic love?

@Thepeopleversuswork great post - and so many others.

As someone who is (probably) about to get divorced I would like to thank the OP for starting this thread - I think the responses show the best of Mumsnet, really thoughtful and inspiring replies.

This thread is incredible - so inspiring, fascinating and such an important conversation. I'm faced with this decision now, and it's so easy for people to say you'd be mad to stay in a loveless marriage. But there's so much to consider - poverty, step parents, blended families and so on. I grew up in a single parent home after the age of 12 and that wasn't nice either, so I'm treading carefully. It isn't as simple as 'just leave'. So much to consider.

The children would still be denied those moments if you split up, no?

My parents divorced when I was 12 and instantly life was easier. You think that children don't pick up on parents unhappiness but I always knew they were unhappy, especially my father.

@willWillSmithsmith definitely just romantic love. Most people don't go from in love to hate just like that. The drudgery of family life and responsibilities can weigh you down

a child of an unhappy marriage, don't kid yourself the DC don't know. They know, and possibly blame themselves, that you are unhappy.

As a single parent - my DC and I are happy. Some things are simpler, especially when they were smaller - no divide and rule in our house, mum is the only adult! And I am demonstrating to them that you can be happy alone, have a good life financially and emotionally, you don't need to settle for a relationship which doesn't work because you can and should be able to be alone. I think that's important especially for my DD to know.

My DPs (teenage shotgun) marriage was unhappy, and they stayed together for the sake of the children for a long time. It has hugely messed their children up, both the impact of living with unhappy adults as a child, and what they took from the example of their parents marriage into their own adult relationships.

Nothing is as black and white as the OP

@Womencanlift not projecting, my parents are still married. A minority of step family's can be ok but many can also see problems with dc just not liking the partner or downright abuse/death - there is clearly increased risk.

An unhappy relationship doesn't always mean unhappy life although yes you may be be fulfilling your relationship potential.

There is this thought that once divorced you will be instant happy and find an incredible partner which could happen. It could also be true that you struggle financially, struggle with parenting and looking after the house, you do are unhappy and again, there are risk factors for growing up in single parent families ranging from lower grades/ future outcomes to prison/death. Sounds extreme but the evidence is there in black and white.

You can also be an unhappy singleton dealing with the guilt and shame of your poor choices that negatively affected your dc which I think is the most common outcome than the happy divorcee life

@hoven are you happily married?

Yes I don’t think that’s what PP meant by ‘projecting’ - it sounds a lot like you are justifying staying in a less than great marriage yourself @hoven , but apologies if we’ve got that wrong.

Yes I am somewhat. But even prior to marriage I believed in staying together for children as I've seen first hand the negative impact of divorce.

@hoven sorry to hear, but I guess you’ve decided to stay so hope things are not too unhappy for you - out of interest has reading the comments on this thread changed your view at all?

How did you see it first hand if you parents are together?

Thanks. Yes my child is young and I would like another child. I would consider leaving when he is older.

@hoven so you're planning on bringing another child into an unhappy marriage...? I remember you chastising women about "decision making" when it came to women choosing fathers for their children on another thread, so I do find that quite ironic!

So you would consider bringing another child to a loveless marriage? How sad for that child to never see warmth/love/affection between their parents. I was that child, it definitely had an affect on my relationships.