Loveless marriage VS commitment to family

[hoven]

AIBU to suggest that committing to stay in a marriage for your children is more important to show your children than showing them an 'example of a happy relationship'?

In marriages without abuse or toxicity of course

@cestlavielife maybe eventually after counselling/ shifting perspectives/ changes in circumstances meaning less stress

I also believe it will be better for society if people put their families before their feelings

How can that be? Think this through. If prioritising a social construct over feelings were the key to a better society, then movements like communism (which place the needs of "society" over those of the individual) should automatically work.

The whole reason why totalitarian states usually fail and why hardline approaches to lifestyle such as religious cults usually fail is because they don't take account of the needs of the individual. Eventually people bridle at the fact that their needs as human beings don't count. Pluralist societies in which the needs of the individual are given some weight are usually much more successful.

Also you seem to be conflating "the family" with "the marriage". The two things are not the same. You can put your family first while not being married, or by ending a marriage. Plenty of separated parents maintain dignified, cordial relationships with one another while prioritising their children's needs, and plenty of married people live in a state of near open warfare with one another. Marriage does not protect against toxic behaviour.

I think what you are getting at is that people need to put their children at the centre of all decisions as to whether to remain in or dissolve a marriage. Which is absolutely correct. But the corollary of that is not that remaining in a bad marriage is always the best solution. It's very frustrating that you seem to be incapable of seeing past this.

@hoven no I don't believe that for a second, the kids live with you, they are picking up far more than you're giving them credit for. It is very, very easy to feel how happy someone is.

What does ’loveless’ mean?

Is it disrespect, name-calling, abuse, sexism?
Get out!

Or is it lack of sex, physical stuff?
Stay, Who cares?
I wouldn’t be impressed if my parents had divorced just so they could get a leg over.

@jfshu a loveless marriage does not equal an unhappy life. The same way zero marriage does not equal happiness

That your children mean more to you then fleeting feelings. And that you chose to have children and get married so you won't put them at a detriment because you've changed your mind

Great.

Fancy letting my STB-EXH who this? You can let the OW know at the same time

The only reason to stay is if leaving would be so disastrous financially and practically that you decide it’s staying is the least worst of two pretty shit options. If you can afford to leave, then go. It’s no life for any of you to stay.

loveless marriage does not equal an unhappy life. The same way zero marriage does not equal happiness

I'm sure if we were to survey those in loveless marriages the large majority would be unhappy. Marriage isn't the emotionless, transactional tool required for having children that you're making it out to be. As well as having children, most people are seeking companionship; friendship, sex, emotional support, someone to share your life with, being stuck with someone who does not give you those things and not being able to seek them elsewhere would leave most miserable and resentful.

(By most people I mean those seeking relationships and marriage, I appreciate there are lots of people not looking for that!)

That commitment doesn't I clue staying in an unhappy marriage.

You are missing one huge problem- kids growing up in households where the parents are happy, know their parents aren't happy. That is toxicity all on its own. Often children in these households believe the 'staying for the children' line and it causes them guilt. The parents in the house start to resent each other, it's an awful atmosphere. An unhappy marriage is, more often than not, a toxic situation for kids to be in.

The whole 'staying together for the kids' is a lie people tell themselves. Happy kids don't grow up saying 'yeah my parents clearly were unhappy but we got to live in a huge house, that's what's important'. People who say this are staying for themselves because they choose to. But the 'staying for the kids' is a way to put a spin on it, appear selfless and victimise themselves. Its a choice to stay. And this choice is made for the adult, by the adult. Just the same as choosing divorce.

I don't think divorce is the ideal. And I don't believe anyone, especially with kids picks it lightly. And yes if patents can separate in a health way and live under the same roof, I think that's great. However it rarely works out like that. There's need to be clear responsibilities and both parties have to be completely on board.

When a relationship has got to the point you are considering divorce you are picking the lesser of 2 evils. Staying for will impact the kids. So will leaving.

I divorced. Moved to a smaller home. My eldest is an adult, well adjusted and happy. When we talk about divorce and marriage she believes me and her dad made the right choice. We aren't beasties. We are civil and work together if we need to for the kids.

My youngest is doing well at high school. Does well academically. Gets great reports on his behaviour, has friend and hobbies and is currently in the garden doing some pruning.

I am in no doubt that 2 separate happier households is better for my kids. The biggest problem with Divorce is when the adults put their needs, resentment, emotional lashing out in front of their children's well being. Which is the same as many couples who choose to 'stay together for the kids' do as well.

Again comparing 2 different things.

A loveless marriage, isn't the same as not being married

It was an interesting question, so I asked her.

She says yes. DP has done more for her than her biological father ever did. Bear in mind, though, that she didn't meet DP until she was 15, so its not like she had to deal with it as a young child.

I left my long term relationship and for my children (not just for me) it was definitely the right thing.
They get to see their mother happy. Not walking on eggshells, not ready to argue, not pretending that she's not seething inside, not resentful, but happy.
Has this come with sacrifices, yes. But mostly for me. I have no financial security and am skint most of the time. The house is a mess and I'm permanently chasing my tail to keep up with full time work, life admin and being a present parent. We may have to sell the family home and I am retraining to get a better paid job. But ultimately, it was all worth it.
I don't want to date really and my marriage was sexless for five years so I'm not really missing that. But I dance around my kitchen with glee at being out of my relationship, I'm a great role model and a better parent than I was.
So what if we have to give up takeaways and holidays? They get a mum who feels genuinely optimistic about the future.

I’d have agreed with the OP until the decision was made for me by my exH. I thought we were okay. I was content. Then one day, he called time on the marriage. I desperately wanted it not to be happening. I had no experience of separation or divorce and I resisted it for months. I felt like a failure.

5 years on, happier than I’ve been in decades. On great terms with exH. Children very happy and settled and love spending time with both parents and our respective partners. I’ve been in a blissful relationship with a lovely man for 2 years now.

I was devastated and struggled with the stigmas (I think a lot of these were in my own head) that still surround separation and the failure of my marriage but I now believe that my exH made the right decision for us. It’s been and still is financially tougher than it was when I was married but I take pride in the fact that I have and still am working hard in every area of my life to keep our family life stable and happy. Ex does too. He has always been a fantastic father.

I don’t think there’s a black a white answer to this because when I was married, I was content (though I often felt anxious and stifled). I had absolutely no idea back then that the calm and happiness that I feel today was possible.

I suppose we cling to what we know and what makes us feel safe. To make a leap into the unknown is daunting - you don’t know where you’ll land. I think the little quote sums it up:

‘What if I fall?’
‘Oh but my darling,
What if you fly?’

If both parents can live happily together without any romance or expectations of intimacy then I guess it could work on a ‘flatmate’ basis but in the long term that’s not very likely. Resentments are bound to start showing if needs (in whatever capacity that is) are not being met. Resentment in a marriage will be far more damaging to children than two smaller but happier households.

@hoven that's an important perspective te child abuse. I tend to think that some of the same factors that cause instability that breaks up parents can also lead to abuse like poverty, mental health issues, substance abuse, domestic abuse, none of those factors are in the home child murder is very unlikely

In my particular case yes! 100%! We both met other people and are way happier

I absolutely love your story, and this quote- I'm where you were now and it gives me lots of hope for future happiness! Xxxx

Love your story x

But at the start of the year, myself and my DP were on the verge of breaking up, there were a lot of issues going on. The atmosphere was horrible in our home, DS picked up alot on it, despite us keeping it to ourselves, he could tell, something was going on, with the way we interacted with each other, the way we talked to each other.

We have sorted the majority of the issues out now and have worked alot on our relationship and communication.

However, if we hadn't I would have had no problem at all in calling time on the relationship, not just for me but for DS, it was not a pleasant time and I would not want him living in that on a long term basis, I dont think that is modelling the right behaviour.

If either thing had happened, I would have been able to say, we worked hard at fixing things, and we sorted it and together or we worked hard at fixing things and we couldnt plug the gaps, we didnt want to paper the cracks, just to do things further down the line.

But, if we were to split up, I wouldnt consider a step family situation either, DP already has an older son, I think adding in another family would just confuse the situation alot more, but that is me at my time of life, right now.

As someone facing the end of a marriage now, I’m finding the stories on this thread very moving, thank you.

Of course ideally we all want our kids to grow up in happy intact marriages. But if a marriage is unhappy it does tend to be toxic in some way and thus bad for the children ultimately, as well as the parents (who are people too!).

This is the nature of unhappy marriage - of course there are happy platonic marriages which are more like friendships - but these are still happy marriages. Genuinely unhappy marriages create a stifled, difficult atmosphere full of resentment, and are detrimental for everyone who lives in them. A ‘commitment’ to such a marriage isn’t a commitment to your children, but probably stems more from fear of the unknown.

If people can settle into a marriage of friendship and they have children, then I think staying together is better than seeking a romantic spark elsewhere. A successful marriage can be built on things other than sex and romance.

if you aren’t friends and aren’t working together, then I don’t know that just staying in the same house benefits the children.

As older children /teens the kids will go to their mates houses and see the difference in atmosphere ….

In marriages without abuse or toxicity of course

Given this statement, we already agree that sometimes it's best to separate.

How do you define toxicity? I often read about women on here who put up with 'silent treatment ' and other 'non physical abuse'. Plus all kinds of financial inequity.

Is it good, to demonstrate commitment to being treated badly?

@GabriellaMontez Yes! I mean saying no one should divorce except those who are in marriages with ‘abuse or toxicity’ probably rules out the vast majority of divorces from discussion, especially if you include infidelity under the banner of ‘toxicity’, which I would.