There are two sexes…

[ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit]

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

That isn't what happened with Caster.

Caster Semenya DOES NOT identify or live as a woman. It was a scam, for money. Not necessarily blaming him as a 18/19 year old initially, but certainly by all the scouts and coaches that colluded over it at the time. He would have known at puberty that he was male and shouldnt be competing in female athletics.

I cant believe how little people on this thread that are taling about intersex know about human biology. It is actually shocking.

Wait. What. Pantomime horses aren't real horses? Next you're going to tell me that near and far are two different things.

This thread is useful in highlighting how many people throw around the dated and offensive word "intersex" like it's a winning argument.

Who has said that? The only individual with a DSD discussed as far as I can see is Caster Semenya, who just to be clear does not believe himself to be female, does not 'have a female persona ' whatever one of those is, and does not 'identify' as female.

Caster Semenya is male, and lives a 'male' role including being married to a woman in a very conservative/non LGB friendly country. Semenya has known for a long long time that he is a bio male, he just used the situation of a mistake being made in recording his sex at birth, due to the DSD he has, to his huge advantage. No one is denying Semenya's femaleness, as Semenya isn't and doesn't view himself as female

I hope those posters policing where this thread is sitting are busy policing every other thread on MN that is on the wrong board.

Or is is just those which have GC opinions which should be banished?

Many people with DSDs are quite happy with the term intersex, actually.

But that doesn't fit in with the political motivations and machinations of others, hence why you see this line parroted here frequently.

Yes. Also, one can't be same sex attracted if sex isn't real. This is why it is so important that it is understood that there are only two biological sexes.

There are photographs of Semenya wearing a boy's school uniform. He has also spoken derisively of women.

That still doesn’t make them a third sex or change the fact they will still be either male or female.

Then why keep reading?

is it purely to moan?

I'd say crack on. I don't really have a gender identity either. I am not particulary feminine, am gender non-conforming and don't dress in stereotypically female clothing.

I know I'm female and a woman though and then no male can ever be.

The horse comment made me think of this

It is so very concerning that it's actually scary. Are they just going to include biological men in studies about women now? How can we recognise what women's issues are if we are allowing anyone to identify as one. We need to stick together ladies!

How does one “feel like a woman”? 🤔

Oh for goodness sake.

Casters case has nothing to do with lack of empathy and everything to do with respect for scientific fact and fairness in sport.

How would you propose excluding Caster from female competition without acknowledging facts? Caster is male and produced testosterone at a level which gave them an unfair advantage and would have a woman banned from competition for suspected doping.

Woman is a material reality not an identity.

Caster is free to describe themself however they like but they are male.

They already do @Wassa123 lots of studies say things like “women including trans women & non binary” ie women including men

and yes exactly! How can we have any accurate data about women when men are included?

What makes you sure you are a woman, is it anything other than the fact you know you're not a man?

I feel sympathy for lots of people but that should not get in the way of facts. Making a mistake in observation at birth, doesn't make a male into a female.

Maybe they feel like they have periods? Or feel like they've given birth?

That would be a good test wouldn't it. Get them to go through child birth!

Really? Can you link to one? Somoeone with a DSD that does not identify as trans that is happy to be called intersex. I have only ever seen trans-identifying people claim to be intersex.

There are many posters on twitter who have DSDs (and represent DSD organisations/charities) and specifically and vocally and frequently object to trans people claiming intersex as a trans identitiy or third sex.

I really recommend this site for info on the perspective of people with DSD, and the co-option of DSDs by those pushing TQ+ ideology

https://differently-normal.com/author/clarecais/

FOJN

This

Woman is a material reality not an identity.

As a scientist this is the bit I can't understand. Caster is almost (but not quite) totally insensive to testosterone .... so why is the circulating level of testosterone so important??

Being an adult human female