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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

There are two sexes…

635 replies

ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit · 23/06/2023 13:34

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

OP posts:
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Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:15

The same number of people are born intersex as are left handed. Fact.
It's the most common reason for infertility.
It may not be obvious to the person and many only find out that they are intersex when trying for a baby.

luffkinks · 23/06/2023 15:15

"Gender tests on Semenya reportedly showed the runner had no womb or ovaries but that she had internal testes, the male sexual organs which produce testosterone, and her levels of the hormone were three times that usually expected in a female. "

User087 · 23/06/2023 15:16

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 13:50

Exactly this. Look up Caster Semenya for a real life example.

Sounds as though you need to do the looking up. Intersex is not a sex.

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:16

CrispsnDips · 23/06/2023 13:48

When a baby I knew of was born neither male or female, the parents chose and an operation ensued…for that child there may have been complexities growing up. The hope would be that they could decide whether they were male or female ..my brain cannot compute the variances

Incredibly cruel and invasive. It's how it used to be but should not be any more.

Kucinghitam · 23/06/2023 15:17

🍿🍿🍿

luffkinks · 23/06/2023 15:17

The amount of posts arguing whether Caster is male or female proves that people with DSD are not a third sex doesn't it.

Back to the OP's question then...

Peverellshire · 23/06/2023 15:17

luffkinks · 23/06/2023 14:32

People with DSDs are not a fucking 3rd sex!!
They are incredibly offended by this.
There is no such thing as 'intersex'
Go online and educate yourselves!

This ....

You’re right of course, but too many don’t understand this. NB: ‘teacher’ on ‘cat’ recording row…

nothingcomestonothing · 23/06/2023 15:17

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:10

Send them to me I wouldn't mind reading. I had no idea.

I posted a video upthread for starters. It's no shame not to know by the way, all the press around Semenya for years was about obfuscating the truth. All the drawn out sports bodies decisions and wranglings, and media insinuating that it was racist to suggest Semenya was a male, or making reference to Semenya having 'naturally high testosterone ' was all obscuring the facts that Semenya is male and everyone involved has know that for at least the last 10 years of Semenya's career

Booklover40 · 23/06/2023 15:18

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:15

The same number of people are born intersex as are left handed. Fact.
It's the most common reason for infertility.
It may not be obvious to the person and many only find out that they are intersex when trying for a baby.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 15:18

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:15

The same number of people are born intersex as are left handed. Fact.
It's the most common reason for infertility.
It may not be obvious to the person and many only find out that they are intersex when trying for a baby.

DSDs and nope

maddening · 23/06/2023 15:18

SummerLovingg · 23/06/2023 13:42

Some people are born neither male or female.

Not true people with DSD (previously described as intersex) are either male or female, their DSD will impact them in line with their actual sex for example.

DSD language has been stolen by trans ideology (eg assigned at birth) and are used by TRAs as part of their argument to try and prove that there is a sex spectrum (there is no spectrum)

FOJN · 23/06/2023 15:18

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:00

She was assigned as a female from birth and has lived as a woman. She is not really male or female she is intersex and was raised from birth as a woman. You deciding she will be he and she was born with a medical condition doesn't sit well and is offensive.

It's probably advisable for you to resist the temptation to call other people's words offensive when you keep using the word "intersex", it's outdated and hasn't been used in a medical environment for he better part of two decades and people with DSD's do find it offensive.

No one has "decided" that Caster has a medical condition or what sex Caster is, these are scientific facts, not insults.

I suspect most people are happy to respect Caster's pronouns but facts matter.

Caster is male, again this is a fact not an insult.

Naunet · 23/06/2023 15:18

It’s a load of male ego centred, misogynistic, regressive bullshit

literallyarabbit · 23/06/2023 15:18

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:15

The same number of people are born intersex as are left handed. Fact.
It's the most common reason for infertility.
It may not be obvious to the person and many only find out that they are intersex when trying for a baby.

Sigh.

Have you read this thread. Numerous posters (including myself), have all stated clearly intersex is an incredibly offensive and outdated term for what are now known to be DSDs - Differences in Sex Development. However, and most pertinently, DSDs are still sexed and some affect only biological males and some affect only biological females.

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:19

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening

People who are intersex may have a mix of chromosomes, such as XXY. Or they may have some cells that are XY and some cells that are XX. Or they may have just one X chromosome (XO).

SeaSaltAir · 23/06/2023 15:19

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

You seem to have very diverse friends. Just out of interest do your trans friends believe there are only 2 sexes? If they do why do they say they are trans? If they believe in more than two sexes why do you indulge them?

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/06/2023 15:20

The ignorance of DSD on this thread (leaning aside ppl with DSD repeated requests not to be dragged into this) is truly astounding

less than 1% of the population have a DSD; 11% of the population

and no PCOS for example is not a DSD despite TRA trying to appropriate that as well

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:20

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening

Are you implying that intersex is not real? A scientifically proven biological situation?

justteanbiscuits · 23/06/2023 15:20

It's great you bought this up, as there haven't been any other threads about this....

Theeyeballsinthesky · 23/06/2023 15:21

fucksake 11% of the population are left handed

Booklover40 · 23/06/2023 15:22

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:20

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening

Are you implying that intersex is not real? A scientifically proven biological situation?

Have you RTFT? All the information is pretty much here if you want to educate yourself..

MartyMcFlysPurpleUnderwear · 23/06/2023 15:22

Clementineorsatsuma · 23/06/2023 15:20

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening

Are you implying that intersex is not real? A scientifically proven biological situation?

The term intersex is very outdated and offensive.

The correct term is DSD (difference of sexual development).

People with DSDs (what you are calling intersex) are still either male or female.

literallyarabbit · 23/06/2023 15:23

The reason intersex is still being used as a term is due to TRAs who use it as some kind of gotcha to prove an existence of a third sex. Except it isn't a thing, and not only that, but the many conditions that fall under the intersex DSD umbrella are all sexed, and only affect one biological sex or the other. There isn't a single DSD that affects both sexes.

Naunet · 23/06/2023 15:23

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:00

She was assigned as a female from birth and has lived as a woman. She is not really male or female she is intersex and was raised from birth as a woman. You deciding she will be he and she was born with a medical condition doesn't sit well and is offensive.

There’s some strong debate as to if Caster really ‘lived as a woman’ whatever that means.

TurkishClouds · 23/06/2023 15:23

Teleguard · 23/06/2023 15:05

Virtually all humans are born with an intended reproductive strategy of a few small gametes or many tiny gametes. This is male sex or female sex.

Culture and governance detetmines how far sex dictates activities a human is allowed culturally or legally to participate in.

There have always been some men who prefer to do undertake women's activities and vice versa. In some cultures this is 'allowed' by saying these people are the opposite sex or a third sex.

There is currently a problem in western cultures and governance because (1) the many tiny gametes strategy can be associated with violence towards those with the few small gametes strategy (2) the many tiny gametes strategy is associated with being stronger, faster and popularity so competitions with no sex barrier reduce chances of those with the few small gametes strategy winning

Gender is self reported so is unreliable. Its use by some Gen z appears to be refer to what sort of creature and sex you think you are. Previously most people used it because they were embarrassed to use the word'sex'and saw it as interchangeable with sex.it is unlikely there are 72 ways to decide who you think might be in your head. People can visualise up to 7 of an item in their head and after that it's just 'many'

I love this explanation 😊

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