Page 6 | There are two sexes…

ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit · 2023-06-23T12:34:38+00:00

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person. Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

Pinkmini · 23/06/2023 14:54

tonystarksrighthand · 23/06/2023 13:58

When we are all dead and buried. We are only 1 of 2 sexes. Absolute fact. We are not non binary or a fucking cat.

I'm sick of it and it's beyond insulting to women. I'm perimenopausal and if a man in a dress allegedly feels like he/she/whatever is going through the menopause .... then literally just fuck off. I have not one ounce of time for it.

👏👏👏

luffkinks · 23/06/2023 14:58

@ASGIRC

It is absolutely not akin to being Gay 30 years ago.

Gay rights were asking for the law to include protections not to discriminate.

Trans already have protection in law specifically for trans people.

Gay rights were asking for marriage to be legal

Trans people can legally marry whom ever they want.

What rights do trans people not have?

Being Gay is a reality, a man who is attracted to a man. It is reality, it doesn't affect anyone else's rights.

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 14:58

SinnerBoy · 23/06/2023 14:48

Sistanotcista · Today 13:50
Mamabear04 · Today 13:47

Some people are intersex so there are three sexes, female, male and intersex. Gender is a whole other story.

Exactly this. Look up Caster Semenya for a real life example.

There's no such thing as intersex, it's outmoded and people with DSDs (Disorders of Sexual Development) dislike it and as that it isn't used to describe them.

Caster Semanya was thought to be a girl, but developed a micropenis, as he aged. He has very low testosterone, for a male, but nevertheless, male he is, even though he was allowed to compete as a woman.

All people with DSDs are either male, or female, even if their phenotype (outward appearance) would tend people to assume that they are the opposite sex, or androgynous.

Thanks, @SinnerBoy - appreciate this.

It's great when people take the trouble and interest to explain, rather than insulting posters straight off!

Sceptic1234 · 23/06/2023 14:58

I'm afraid I think it is wrong to refer to Caster as "him" despite my scientific understanding (I have been involved in research into steroid hormone action....now retired).

DSD cases are very rare and very, very difficult to live with and I think it is important to respect the perspective of an individual who finds themselves in that situation. Carter's situation is very difficult and very complex

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 14:59

Sceptic1234 · 23/06/2023 14:58

I'm afraid I think it is wrong to refer to Caster as "him" despite my scientific understanding (I have been involved in research into steroid hormone action....now retired).

DSD cases are very rare and very, very difficult to live with and I think it is important to respect the perspective of an individual who finds themselves in that situation. Carter's situation is very difficult and very complex

He's a man.

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 15:00

Sceptic1234 · 23/06/2023 14:58

I'm afraid I think it is wrong to refer to Caster as "him" despite my scientific understanding (I have been involved in research into steroid hormone action....now retired).

DSD cases are very rare and very, very difficult to live with and I think it is important to respect the perspective of an individual who finds themselves in that situation. Carter's situation is very difficult and very complex

Nice to see some empathy. Thanks, @Sceptic1234

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:00

TheShellBeach · 23/06/2023 14:47

His XY chromosomes say that he is definitely male .

Show quote history

She was assigned as a female from birth and has lived as a woman. She is not really male or female she is intersex and was raised from birth as a woman. You deciding she will be he and she was born with a medical condition doesn't sit well and is offensive.

literallyarabbit · 23/06/2023 15:01

Mamabear04 · 23/06/2023 13:47

Some people are intersex so there are three sexes, female, male and intersex. Gender is a whole other story.

What rot.

This is incorrect.

There are only two sexes.

Intersex is an incredibly offensive and outdated term for what are now known as DSDs - Differences in Sex Development. However, DSDs are still sexed and some affect only biological males and some affect only biological females.

Mangogogogo · 23/06/2023 15:02

Crazy that no one seems to have heard of intersex. Educate!

TheShellBeach · 23/06/2023 15:03

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:00

She was assigned as a female from birth and has lived as a woman. She is not really male or female she is intersex and was raised from birth as a woman. You deciding she will be he and she was born with a medical condition doesn't sit well and is offensive.

Show quote history

He has male chromosomes.

nothingcomestonothing · 23/06/2023 15:03

Sceptic1234 · 23/06/2023 14:58

I'm afraid I think it is wrong to refer to Caster as "him" despite my scientific understanding (I have been involved in research into steroid hormone action....now retired).

DSD cases are very rare and very, very difficult to live with and I think it is important to respect the perspective of an individual who finds themselves in that situation. Carter's situation is very difficult and very complex

This Caster Semenya, who doesn't see himself as a woman except when cheating in sports? Yeah no

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DHvg50P4FwTk&ved=2ahUKEwiIvuqEx9n_AhXTGMAKHfqEANwQwqsBegQIEBAE&usg=AOvVaw1LkP-mJ3T6Ke5Geg29Zg8C

https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&source=web&url=https%3A%2F%2Fm.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DHvg50P4FwTk&usg=AOvVaw1LkP-mJ3T6Ke5Geg29Zg8C&ved=2ahUKEwiIvuqEx9n_AhXTGMAKHfqEANwQwqsBegQIEBAE

ManateeFair · 23/06/2023 15:03

Wow, nobody's ever mentioned this on Mumsnet before 🙄

ClawedButler · 23/06/2023 15:04

Wholly not in the spirit of this thread, but an anagram of Caster Semenya is "Yes, a secret man".
<trundles back into inappropriate cave>

MoirasSaggyBundles · 23/06/2023 15:04

Mangogogogo · 23/06/2023 15:02

Crazy that no one seems to have heard of intersex. Educate!

Crazy that some people don't understand that "intersex" is an offensive term to people who suffer Differences of Sexual Development, and that people with DSDs are either male or female. Educate yourself.

Booklover40 · 23/06/2023 15:04

Sceptic1234 · 23/06/2023 14:58

I'm afraid I think it is wrong to refer to Caster as "him" despite my scientific understanding (I have been involved in research into steroid hormone action....now retired).

DSD cases are very rare and very, very difficult to live with and I think it is important to respect the perspective of an individual who finds themselves in that situation. Carter's situation is very difficult and very complex

Except that he is using his DSD to win women's sports competitions. So it's not just about him, it's affecting biologically born women.

Teleguard · 23/06/2023 15:05

Virtually all humans are born with an intended reproductive strategy of a few small gametes or many tiny gametes. This is male sex or female sex.

Culture and governance detetmines how far sex dictates activities a human is allowed culturally or legally to participate in.

There have always been some men who prefer to do undertake women's activities and vice versa. In some cultures this is 'allowed' by saying these people are the opposite sex or a third sex.

There is currently a problem in western cultures and governance because (1) the many tiny gametes strategy can be associated with violence towards those with the few small gametes strategy (2) the many tiny gametes strategy is associated with being stronger, faster and popularity so competitions with no sex barrier reduce chances of those with the few small gametes strategy winning

Gender is self reported so is unreliable. Its use by some Gen z appears to be refer to what sort of creature and sex you think you are. Previously most people used it because they were embarrassed to use the word'sex'and saw it as interchangeable with sex.it is unlikely there are 72 ways to decide who you think might be in your head. People can visualise up to 7 of an item in their head and after that it's just 'many'

literallyarabbit · 23/06/2023 15:06

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:00

She was assigned as a female from birth and has lived as a woman. She is not really male or female she is intersex and was raised from birth as a woman. You deciding she will be he and she was born with a medical condition doesn't sit well and is offensive.

Show quote history

Caster has male chromosomes and a DSD that only affects males. Regrettably, he was born with atypical genitalia that led to him being sexed as female. Caster went through a male puberty.

A simple chromosome test would have shown he was male. Indeed, his coaches knew he was male. Caster knows they are male.

nothingcomestonothing · 23/06/2023 15:08

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:00

She was assigned as a female from birth and has lived as a woman. She is not really male or female she is intersex and was raised from birth as a woman. You deciding she will be he and she was born with a medical condition doesn't sit well and is offensive.

Show quote history

Semenya does not 'live as a woman,' whatever that entails, the only time Semenya identifies as a woman is on the race track. Semenya was well aware of her DSD from puberty if not earlier, and used it to cheat woman out of medals and records.

I can see having sympathy for someone exploited by scouts looking for kids with DSDs to win at sports, but Semenya has known for a long long time and still took part in women's sports. Plus he is a misogynist, listen to his views on 'girls'. Semenya's being allowed to cheat for so long is offensive to me.

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:09

TheShellBeach · 23/06/2023 15:03

He has male chromosomes.

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She has a vagina and testes but she has always lived as a woman and was signed off from birth as a woman. This isn't about trans this is about intersex a medical condition. You have to have some empathy.

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:10

nothingcomestonothing · 23/06/2023 15:08

Semenya does not 'live as a woman,' whatever that entails, the only time Semenya identifies as a woman is on the race track. Semenya was well aware of her DSD from puberty if not earlier, and used it to cheat woman out of medals and records.

I can see having sympathy for someone exploited by scouts looking for kids with DSDs to win at sports, but Semenya has known for a long long time and still took part in women's sports. Plus he is a misogynist, listen to his views on 'girls'. Semenya's being allowed to cheat for so long is offensive to me.

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Send them to me I wouldn't mind reading. I had no idea.

luffkinks · 23/06/2023 15:11

@ASGIRC

It is absolutely not akin to being Gay 30 years ago.

Gay rights were asking for the law to include protections not to discriminate.

Trans already have protection in law specifically for trans people.

Gay rights were asking for marriage to be legal

Trans people can legally marry whom ever they want.

What rights do trans people not have?

Being Gay is a reality, a man who is attracted to a man. It is reality, it doesn't affect anyone else's rights.

FourTeaFallOut · 23/06/2023 15:11

Oh God no, empathy isn't transformative magic making one thing into another.

nothingcomestonothing · 23/06/2023 15:12

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:09

She has a vagina and testes but she has always lived as a woman and was signed off from birth as a woman. This isn't about trans this is about intersex a medical condition. You have to have some empathy.

Show quote history

Where are you getting this from? Semenya doesn't 'live as a woman', Semenya doesn't consider Semenya's self a woman. A mistake was made when recording Semenya's sex at birth, which has allowed him to cheat but make no mistake, Semenya and everyone around him knows he is a male

loislovesstewie · 23/06/2023 15:13

There is no such thing as intersex, people with a DSD are either biologically male or female. There may be ambiguous sex organs but these days it's possible to tell by tests whether a person is male or female. The old idea of a person being hermaphrodite doesn't stand up anymore. Very rarely a child is born with both male and female sex organs, but it's a miniscule number. As I understand it only about 500 people worldwide are actually hermaphrodites.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 23/06/2023 15:15

Hotsummerlatenightstrolls · 23/06/2023 15:09

She has a vagina and testes but she has always lived as a woman and was signed off from birth as a woman. This isn't about trans this is about intersex a medical condition. You have to have some empathy.

Show quote history

CS has an underdeveloped penis giving the appearance of a vagina - a pseudo vagina if you will - but it is not a vagina. And as pp have said, has not lived as a woman and has not been disadvantaged - quite the contrary.