To think no teacher is affirming animal/moon/object genders

[Greenpotatosoup]

Surely no teacher in the UK would or could affirm a child who claimed to be a cat or a moon or any other sort of animal or object - eg letting them wear non-uniform, eat from bowl, disrupt learning with neo-pronoun requests. Just nonsense. This must be kids taking the piss and feeding bullshit to gullible journos.

I’ve also seen posters on here claiming their kid/cousin’s kid/neighbour’s goat breeder’s Auntie Sue’s best friend has first hand knowledge of this, and again I call bullshit. Bullshit. Any posters who say it’s not bullshit, get off here and write to Gillian Keegan, who explicitly requested examples of batshittery in schools at a recent select committee hearing, and name the school, and write to your local MP and ofsted too. But I think it’s just bullshit and teacher bashing.

YABU: I believe teachers ARE affirming cat/moon/anything genders

YANBU: I don’t believe any teacher would affirm an animal or object gender.

I understand there are strong views on here about transgender issues. My AIBU is not intended to be about that.

Well indeed. It’s literally unbelievable. And I know IABFU to ask the question and then not believe people’s answers. But honestly, I can’t believe it. Asked my 13yo about animal genders in their school, and they literally lolled at the idea their form teacher would tolerate anything like it.

Why are people making this stuff up? How much is adults piss-taking and how much is adults genuinely believing that there’s a problem of this particular type, based on kids piss-taking? How much is people with an agenda? What agenda(s)?

@Flickersy your post is about kids indentifying but as the Pink News link shows there is a large adult furry community & it seems that they are also accepted & welcomed by the lgbtq community (according to the link)

Serving MPs of the time

When I was around 11 (late 80s) there was a girl in my class who would always pretend to be a horse. She didn't run, she galloped. She would neigh occasionally. I found her a bit annoying but on the whole we just let her be. The teachers still addressed her by her name and treated her as a human girl, not a horse! We didn't make a fuss. She could pretend to be whatever she wanted, people would comment 'she just has an active imagination'. Everyone obviously knew she was a girl not a horse and she never tried to force us otherwise. We just all got on with it.

There were also girls in my class that were quite boy-like on purpose. Liked to be seen as looking like a boy, tried to walk like the boys, do boy stuff. Again, we all just accepted it, got along, didn't make a fuss. We addressed our boy-like classmates as 'she', used their name, and treated them and considered them female. That was all fine and dandy!

No doubt horse kid has grown up to become a regular adult female! I know a couple of the 'boyish' girls are now married with kids and perfectly happy.

If this was today, I dread to think of these children's futures. In the 80s we just all accepted we are all different and that's ok! No need to change gender or species !! But you can 'pretend' for a bit if you.like.and everyone's cool with that! noone expected others to join in the pretence!!

From that furry article, it’s a hobby rather than a sexuality or identity. No place for that in the classroom.

My kid plays in a marching band, but wouldn’t expect the teachers to endorse them marching round the classroom playing the trombone in band uniform during lessons. Doesn’t mean kid should be mocked for their hobby either, just not conducive to a productive learning environment.

Boris “Officially A Liar” Johnson was in this camp, but a columnist rather than an M.P.

I just can't understand why it's all entertained? Why aren't mental health services or child safeguarding making interventions when a person says "actually I'm not a girl, I am a boy/cat/mouse/fork /santa"...?

Yeah I definitely remember a Tebbit-type coming out with it too

Oh no Tebbit said it would lead to men marrying their own children

Because it's the dream isn't it.. everyone will see us as we see ourselves.
You affirm me and I'll affirm you.

And some people might think.. well so what? Why not live in a world where we can all be who we want to be?
But.. where's the line?
If my child identifies as a bird should I take them to a cliff and let them jump off?

Teachers will do what is required to keep their jobs. They are doomed if they do, screwed if they don’t. Pupils are without a doubt taking the piss.

what I do see happening now is that many employers won’t take on young employees and find themselves having to deal with this.

Also I agree with a poster who said that there are bigger issues in schools, like gangs and violence and drugs.
And that's true in one sense.
But to be frank, and whether it's right or not, it's the privileged, pandered kids identifying as what they fancy and demanding validation and respect who are going to go on to be doctors and judges and educators and government officials, who will shape the world to come.

I've heard similar, anecdotally, that pronouns on CV or linked in shows someone who could be troublesome. It's a shame for kids who've diligently learned from silly adults that it's the correct thing to do.

I think it's always polite to say to people with pronouns on their profiles or emails , with a deadpan face- "I'm so glad you put your pronouns on there, I'd have never guessed ". They want people to acknowledge they are doing the right thing.

@StephanieSuperpowers many teens are revolting against this though & those two girls have shown. They are not going to stand for it & more power to them.
So sad that adults are standing by & letting children taking on the burden of advocating for common sense.

That is so rank.

And I so understand why people don’t want to be on the wrong side of history on the gender issue, with this in our recent past. I found this an interesting (though v long) comparison between gay and trans rights https://janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

but all quite separate to the idea of teachers affirming cats and whatnot.

@Greenpotatosoup but ultimately they are pretending to be something they're not like the cat child or the horse child... Why is there no mental health services or psychiatric services involved?

My own observation is that the two teenagers I know who are female but use they/them or male pronouns arose because of the school's reluctance to tackle toxic masculinity.

In one example, the girl's pony-tail was set on fire because she was a lesbian. The boys were punished but remained in school and in the same form class.

In another, after complaining about frequent cat-calling in lessons in front of a male teacher (who didn't see it, didn't hear it) but reprimanded the one boy who told the boys to stop doing it for being disruptive, the girl subsequently became non-binary and therefore gained instant protection from harassment.

If the same protection was available to women/girls then I think you would see less need in schools to seek a stronger protected characteristic, certainly less in young teenage girls.

Schools, and society, do not take sexism seriously and you see the patriarchal patterns developing from the cradle onwards. Look at any school playground and see the space that boys take up with football and wonder where are the girls on the team and why they are confined to the edges with their role play pretend games or non competitive skipping.

Toxic masculinity is the problem that affects us all. The sooner we tackle it, the better. Boys will be boys doesn't wash anymore.

I wish I was! Because biting fox girl didn't draw blood or leave a mark, the school dismissed it and warned MY child against discriminating behaviour by making a fuss. We're living in a crazy, crazy world.

You should have demanded a tetanus shot for your child!

Joking aside that's disgraceful. Surely the child fox cub should be attending mental health services.. Because she was pandered to could/will lead to a vicious attack on another child which will be inkeeping with her "fox persona". Utterly disgusting.

That is such a good point.

And some trans rights activists are also a good example of toxic masculinity. The spectrum from 'toxic alpha male shutting down women who dare to object' to 'aggressive self declared most marginalised shutting down women who dare to object' isn't even a horseshoe, it's pretty much a circle.So whichever way these girls turn, they are trampled on.

Do we have evidence of real teachers doing this or is it just random women roaming around schools identifying as teachers?

@seasaltair yes there is lots of evidence that teachers are agreeing to "chosen" pronouns & are referring to girls as boys & vice versa!

@Moonandstarzz teacher here- we don’t have a choice on pronouns. I try and avoid using them (it’s quite easy to avoid, just use child’s name) as it sticks in my craw but others do.