To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

Crèche for an hour is a lot different to crèche all day. How do you know if your baby is unhappy? Are they able to tell you how they’re feeling at 6,8,12 months old?
because I’m assuming they’re under 3 as most people use nurseries at 3 part time regardless of employment status.
Im taking about babies and toddlers who are not able to properly convey how they feel and are often picked up, fed bathed and put to bed all for it to start over again early the next day.
No loss of some of my pension, or fear of being abandoned by my husband would make me sacrifice the time I spent with my babies. They’re some of the best years of my life.

Also aside from the logistics, do you actually want to be a SAHP? I could maybe have just about accepted being a SAHP with one if I had to be, although I'd rather not have, but I really could not do it with two. I'm not made to be a SAHP, I'd be a ratty, annoyed mess by Wednesday. And my kids deserve better!

This is complete nonsense.

You clearly don't have the faintest grasp of feminism if you think being financially independent is anti-feminist. Also millions of children cope perfectly well in childcare settings.

OP I think it's very tempting to want to scale back your work in these early years when it feels like utter drudgery but I would be very careful about taking more than a couple of years off.

However much you trust your DH and however good things are, you don't know what's around the corner. It isn't just the obvious risks of him cheating, leaving or dying. Becoming wholly dependent on another adult for your financial wellbeing is incredibly risky. It's also the slow erosion of your power and influence within the family that comes with no longer being economically productive. It changes the dynamic and not in a good way. You may really enjoy being with your children now but after 10 years of being at home and finding increasingly redundant after they go to school, it will be much harder to carve out a role and a life outside the home.

I really struggled with going back to work when my daughter was small but I'm really glad I kept my hand in now.

It's totally understandable that women choose to put their careers on the back burner when dealing with small children. But if you do this please make sure you have an exit strategy and can get back.

Well I thought I’d explained that but I’ll try again as obviously wasn’t clear!

Why does all the 'rushing and hassle' fall on you?

Because DH earns more, to put it very baldly, and the hours reflect that. There is some WFH involved but on office days he leaves the house before 7am and often does not get back until around 8pm. If we were to decide that I wasn’t going to rush or be hassled, we’d have to accept a different lifestyle.

Why does your DH get to concentrate on work and nothing else?

He doesn’t. He does contribute and he does take time off and he does do a lot (as he should) but if he isn’t physically here, not in the country, or in the country but at the other end of it, then realistically I can’t demand he returns from Penzance or Aberdeen or Norwich to collect a child who has thrown up.

Why has becoming a parent changed your life but not your DHs?

This is something I think about. I think there is some truth in that although it has drastically changed both our lives (Dh certainly has less money!)

But I do think it boils down to money, crude and horrid as that may be. If I lost my job tomorrow we wouldn’t really notice; if DH did, it would be catastrophic.

Why isn't your DH doing half of nursery runs, arranging wraparound care etc if he's not willing/able to adjust his working hours to accommodate his parental responsibilities?

Because he often is not physically here. I think this is what I’ve come to understand: in theory two parents working is two equal parents but when you can’t cope without one job and you can without the other, it’s obvious which one you have to ‘sacrifice.’

And I am not saying I will. In some ways - only some - it’s better for me to stay in work, but better for whom?

Earnings aren't to dissimilar (must proof read) Basically DH earns around £6k a year more than me and we're both FT

I respect your honesty but can I ask why you had children? What was your reasons for wanting them and having more then one?

I've done this, temporarily. I didn't really think about whether it was feminist or not, just whether it worked for me/our family.

Obviously do be aware of the penalties of having a work gap etc but I don't think it makes sense for everyone to follow a rigid ideal plan of what is exactly perfect. Do what's important to you.

YANBU. Many women don't earn more after they have kids, their career stalls, and they become the default parent.
So the next step is to talk to your partner and look at your finances. Work out life insurance, and protect your pension. Look 20 years ahead; how will you fund university for the kids, and how will you make sure you are not financially worse off than if you have continued working full time.

I think you make what you want work. If you are financially comfortable and not really bothered about working you can convince yourself it's not doable, but you should be honest with yourself when plenty of others manage it (through necessity or choice), in my case I've always wanted to work so have never really considered the cost of childcare vs not working, or the shuttling from A to B, because I wanted children and I want to work so we are just doing what we need to do to manage those things. Obviously it's not always as cut and dry and that if there are things that make something necessary or impossible, but on the whole I think people do what works for them. Sure the school years have some challenges, but between flexible working and wraparound childcare it's been workable without too much stress for us, and most people I know tbh.

@Sarahtm35 but if you’re anti childcare generally then that’s of course up to you to make a decision you are comfortable with. However, I’m not. I am probably lazy but I really appreciate the days DC1 is in nursery, especially when the autumn / winter kicks in.

@LegendsBeyond I think we are talking at cross purposes. My pension is not as much as it was because I am part time so obviously that means I’m not paying as much into it: it isn’t a bad pension though.

We only have one but when DD was born (and cooking) DH worked away 5.5 days a week. Family were 5000 miles away. I took professional qualifications and then voluntary redundancy whilst on mat leave and set up a consultancy. Worked 20-30 hours a week from when DD was 9 months around her (no childcare). DH became home based when DD was about 18 months old. I kept on consulting and then went back to a corporate role full time when she started school at 3. DH shared school runs.

I used to earn about 2/3rds of what he did. Now we are more or less equal (my package is better pension wise etc). Since she was 10 I’ve been in a role that involves travel away 2-4 days a week on average. DH is the default parent now and fits his work around DD’s school runs and extra curricular activities.

I cannot imagine my life without work. Even being part time would have stallled me for much longer than I would have wanted to be.

@Sarahtm35

I respect your honesty but can I ask why you had children? What was your reasons for wanting them and having more then one?

Are you suggesting that only women who want to remain at home should have children?

What would you recommend single parents without any financial support do?

I love my children. I love spending time with them and they are happy, bright, lovely little girls. That doesn't mean I want to spend 24-7 with them. I don't want to spend 24/7 with anyone. I also value my own time, my career, my hobbies.

My 1yo is in nursery two days a week and my 3yo is in three days. On the days they are home we do loads of things, on the days they are at nursery I recharge, do something for myself, work to earn money to afford all the lovely things, and be one of my other roles for a while.

I have the utmost respect for SAHMs as I think its hard and relentless work, no matter how much they love their kids. No one enjoys their kids 100% of the time, after all.

I respect your honesty but can I ask why you had children?

Have you ever asked your husband that?

DH doesn't have a normal job and is out the country a lot, and I have no family near me so it's just me. We have 3 dc. Wrap around care is so expensive it would cancel out any money I would earn, so dh made sure my name is on everything, I have protected assets, insurance etc. It works for us, though I would never advise my own daughter's to do it that way. I'm here for them when they need me, run around all the clubs and school runs and events, don't have to worry about childcare in holidays etc, and I'm not stuck in some shitty minimum wage job that I always used to have to work. We're all much happier now. Doesn't work for everyone.

im not flat out anti childcare. Mine all went at 3. I just wouldn’t have put them in when they were defenceless babies as they’re not always very safe or loving (however much they try to appear to be)

I can’t answer for @Hugasauras but for me I don’t think wanting children and wanting to spend every waking moment with a toddler are synonymous. A child’s life is a big journey, and there will be parts of that journey you’ll hate and parts you’ll love. I adore my child and I love having a funny, crazy small person around the place, but I also love and value adult time in a way I once did not! It’s like saying ‘well if you don’t like standing in the airport waiting for your luggage why did you go abroad?’ It’s not the whole picture. I have years of being a mum. Toddler tantrums and cuddles and silliness, adjusting to primary school, reading stories that have a plot, discovering nature and the world, navigating friendships and relationships, first sleepovers, first boyfriend or girlfriend, all of it.

Thinking ‘thank the bloody lord for nursery so I can have a day off!’ Is not a bad parent!

It’s hard but it’s doable; with two children you don’t “have” to give up work. I can certainly see where it makes life easier in many ways but there are downsides to it as well. It depends how you want to live your life.

My husband is a man and his job is to provide for us. But when our youngest was born very ill and he took time off, he shared the hospital stay with me. He’s a great father, a great provider and he takes his role as a father very seriously. He would have never put me in a position where I felt the pressure to work when they were babies and on his 1 day off a week he always spends it with the children. We’ve always put our children first and the defined roles have enabled us to do that successfully. Besides my children were worth 3 years of putting my career on hold.

Op...I'm a sahm. I have no family support with childcare. I gave up work because it was a logistical nightmare. I could cope with one child in nursery but two DC in different settings combined with a commute was a nightmare. I also had a DC with sn and endless medical appointments.

The only was it's possible with no family support is either....throw money at the problem. If you can afford a nanny, you should be fine. The only other way is to become a stressed out mess!

Speaking from experience.

That's a really lovely way of thinking about the whole journey @Bluewatersummer. It's not anti feminist to be a stay at home mum in my opinion. As long as that is the choice you made, and you had other options that were not closed off to you because you are a woman. Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to have it all, or do it all, just that the options should be there for you if you want them.

It's hard.

I took a step back, worked part time. The juggling was tough. I'm only now (12 years on) about to start a full-time job again with salary level what it was 12 years ago (no inflation).

But I've kept my hand in, shared childcare and mental load with dh, paid in pension, kept up to date with workplace, had things on outside of family.

DH earns well (significantly more than me now - wasn't 12 years ago) but not super super high earner. Had he been in a more high flying high earning potential role 12 years ago, financially it may have made sense for me to give up completely and covered all the pick ups drop offs juggling mental load. But then he would have missed out on family stuff. If the marriage hadn't made it I'd have been in a worse place financially.

You never really know how things will pan out. I'm glad we did things this way - being a ft sahm wouldn't have been good for me.

Good luck OP

I suppose that's the difference then. I don't want my girls growing up thinking men are providers or that their hopes and dreams and ambitions come second to a man's or that men work and women stay at home. If that's how you choose to bring up your children then that's your choice. But it is definitely not mine or my husband's.

I split with my husband of nearly 20 yrs when he decided to suddenly leave. I have a career and well paid job so am ok. However, in my group of single mum friends I’ve made since, those that gave up work are fucked. Even if they get more equity out of house etc they have tiny pensions and are working all hours in shit jobs paying minimum wage. I really really would caution against giving everything up to support a man who could literally leave tomorrow.

Also, I have a senior job with a very good salary and I still manage to do my childcare - why can’t your husband? Does every person in his work leave at 8pm? I bet they don’t. Most senior people here leave for childcare and pick work back up later if needed therefore supporting their partners and sharing the load. There is one notable man who sits in his office doing not much except avoiding family work….I guess your husband is one of those. And that doesn’t bode well for long term

I gave up work to be a sahm until our youngest went into school. This was by agreement as it was something we both wanted.

I then retrained in a career where I was pretty much always guaranteed a job (maths teacher) and have worked a mixture of part time and full time since.

Giving up does not have to be permanent and it's worth thinking about options for when they start school. Thinking through what skills you have and what industry you would like to be in.