To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

Well, it's horses for courses isn't it. I'm pretty happy with my choice. I don't have plans for retirement though. I like making plans for then next few weeks or months but it doesn't occur to me to plan for something in 30ish years. I could well die before then.

What does equal mean, though? Equal amounts of stress on both parents?

Yes.

Equal pay? That won’t happen realistically. A city banker won’t earn the same as a cleaner!

You do know that isn't what equal pay means? It means a female city banker gets equal pay to a male city banker.

Equality and fairness aren’t the same.

What does that have to do with anything?

The gender pay gap and sex discrimination in the workplace won't be resolved until men and women are equally as likely to go part time, take a day off when their children are sick, and take the same length of parental leave when a new baby is born.

I like making plans for then next few weeks or months but it doesn't occur to me to plan for something in 30ish years. I could well die before then.

Ok....sounds sensible...

But absolutely watertight childcare is difficult, because with the best will in the world children do get unwell and then can’t attend.

That's not a regular occurrence though, certainly not enough to make a person give up work. You sound like you want to give up work and are talking yourself down, from your earning capacity/talents to going from full-time to part-time to might as well give up work then. It's up to you, but I wouldn't and didn't. We took the hit paying for childcare and as soon as one is in school, it gets way cheaper, so one being in school isn't a reason to get more stressed. Get organised and it's really not that stressful or involving lots of rushing around.

It's fine. I think you're over-egging it because it's more of an unknown right now, but millions of people deal with it everyday and get through it okay. Sure there'll be stressful times, but SAHP can be stressful in other ways and have plenty of issues for MH, financial stability, confidence, future career etc etc.

Give up work by all means if you want to and can manage that way, but don't make it sound inevitable. There doesn't "come a point where you have to". Honestly, I thought this thread was going to be about you having a chronic illness or something like that, not just about having two kids.

I get what that poster is saying though: both my parents died before retirement age. I hope that doesn’t happen to me but I’m also not going to make decisions based on an uncertain future.

If DH left me tomorrow things wouldn’t be great but I wouldn’t be destitute and on the streets either.

@Bluewatersummer you're statistically more likely to live to retirement age than not. There is a balance between not thinking about the future at all and not living in the moment for fear of the future.

I could never be dependent on a man. Single parent to two teens since nursery days but even when together I was the main earner.

But I do think life was a lot simpler and people were more content when the man worked and the women did the house and kids.

Not saying it's better and not saying it's for everyone. But if you want to and you can, why not?

But I do think life was a lot simpler and people were more content when the man worked and the women did the house and kids.

Rose coloured glasses, I think there were huge numbers of women stuck in miserable marriages because they were dependent on the financial set up and social expectations of marriage.

Juggling a job, and being a mum/looking after the house is very hard. Only initially though - when you've got all the children in school you can then progress your career hopefully.............if you've stayed in work that is. This is why it's a good idea for women to remain in work, even if it's only part-time, or a very few hours a week. At the time, it seems like a joke and you may even be losing money given the amount you fork out for childcare. But being unemployed for long periods of time means you miss out on development opportunities, and the chance to increase your hours once you can. Long term gain for short term pain.

When my two were pre-schoolers I did 18 hrs a week. I then upped to 28, and now back on 36 hrs per week. An email came round offering paid training which I applied for and got - I start the course in September. Had I not been at work at all, I'd have missed those opportunities to both increase my salary and gain a vocational qualification. Your working life continues once you've done the whole pre-school child-rearing bit and it's at that point that for many women who have remained connected in employment that their careers take off.

That's not a regular occurrence though

When I was working I used a huge proportion of my annual leave on looking after sick child. It doesn't need to be regular, but it's frequent.

Also don't forget - for many women, work gives them a sense of self-identify beyond being a mother, and also a bit of a break from being around baby All.The.Time. It is quite important for your mental health TBH

I think in your position, if you can comfortably afford to give up work then I 100% would. Why struggle if you don’t have too?

Take a long hard look at your finances, can you keep your current lifestyle, what changes would you need to make. Consider your NI contributions to ensure it doesn’t impact your state pension.

If you do give up, make sure your wills are in order, and consider life insurance for both of you in case you can't work/ do the childcare.

My mum was a SAHM, and dad brought home the bacon supported her as young naïve them discussed and agreed. As the dc flew the nest, she became redundant, her outdated skill set and lack of confidence for new technology in the workplace meant returning to work was difficult and dad ended up resenting her "doing nothing" and not contributing to the household budget. Without dc at home she became very needy and depressed.

They stayed together, but it was not happy for them. She couldn't leave and he felt a duty to stay and they both resented each other.

dh and I went down the route of no prioritising either of our jobs and shared childcare load equally. Mainly due to personal experience with my mum. One of us could have had a high flying career but the cost might have been too high for the other.

I did the very thing you’re thinking of when my eldest started school and it’s been wonderful tbh.

Thats all that needs saying really. ^^

Why not? If you can afford to do it, then do it. I did and I loved it. Had a couple of 1 day a week jobs at times. Went back to work part time when youngest started infants. Went back full time just over a year ago (kids are 16 and 18 now). No regrets whatsoever.

*That's not a regular occurrence though

When I was working I used a huge proportion of my annual leave on looking after sick child. It doesn't need to be regular, but it's frequent.*

In your experience sure, but again not inevitable. It was occasional for us, definitely not frequent. Hugely depends on the kids and the work set-up, but unless a DC has a serious illness/condition, I don't think 'kids might be ill' is a good enough reason for a woman to give up work just in case.

OP, I understand where you are coming from, unfortunately if you are like us, who do not have any help from famlies (both DH and mine are abroad), then it can be very hard.

Wether becoming a SAHM depends on your personal circumstances. Will you be financially secure if you drop your job? Is you DH supportive? Will he expect you to do everything? Will he appreciate you sacrificing your career for.family? A lot of people will tell you no, dont do it or why is it you who have to sacrifice etc, but they forget you are not only two individuals but also a team. You dont have to share all the duties half and half, it is up to you to work out whats the best for your family.

I am a SAHM with two primary school kids. When our younger one started school, I considered to go back to work, but if I really wanted a career, Id have to be full time. Otherwise, it will be some low paid part time jobs.

We discussed about this, getting a low paid part time job is not ideal, becuase we dont need that bit extra money to be honest, we have enough on one salary. If I go back to full time, that means we need to put kids to after school clubs. That means we need to drop their specific music lessons and sports trainnings. I will no longger have time to make sure they practice at home and learn a bit of my language. We will have to take annual leaves separately to cover school holidays and can no longger thake a long holiday to see grandparents abroad. Of course some people will say thats what most parents do, but we have decided it is better for us to have the lifestyle we have now.

We looked at our finances and made the decision together. My DH is the most wonderful hubby I must say, even though Im a SAHM, I dont do everything! When DH is not working he does as much as he can. I dont ever feel Im left to do everything. I take a lot of the mental load, but hubby is aware of that and he appreciates what I do. I am not ambitious either.

Finacially I also feel secure, we own a house which is under both names. He bought life insurance so if anything happens to him I will get a lot of money. I have access to all accounts and can spend money as I please. We are in the position to buy a second house so by the time we retire, there will be extra rental income to top up his private pension.

I wouldnt have made such decision if hubby is not supportive or of I am finacially vulnerable though.

If women don’t want to work then I wish they’d just own that fact instead of turning it into ‘I can’t afford to work’, ‘it’s too hard for me to work around my husbands job’.

If we are serious about equality then we need to force men to equally parent (& do household stuff) we need to force their employers to allow them flexible, family friendly working. That will only happen if we keep demanding it.

I have a very strong, happy marriage but I would never put myself in a position where I was unemployed and dc and I were solely dependent on DH, for many reasons. We have 3 dc between 5 and 15 and I've been continuously employed throughout. I've dabbled with dropping hours for a while when dc were babies but only because my employer was flexible and I had a guarantee of being able to return to FT hours when I was ready (which I did). If they'd not been in agreement i'd have stayed full time.

I understand why some women want to be SAHMs but unless you have substantial personal wealth it's an extremely risky move...and what your husband earns is irrelevant to that level of risk.

If your dh dumped you or had a MH crisis and chucked in his job or an awful accident or illness you'd be absolutely fucked. I'm always surprised at the amount of women who are willing toaccept that level of risk for both themselves and their dc.

I did this. DH is a highly-skilled massive geek in a niche industry and I was a generic Jack of all trades middle-management type in a jib I didn't particularly love and which paid me a third of what DH was earning.

After our second child I thought 'fuck this'. Quit my job and retrained in something else lower paid that would let me fit around childcare.

DH pays into a pension for me so I don't lose out on that. I also own half our house despite not paying anything towards the mortgage. My money is our 'fun money'. He pays the bills and I pay for the holidays and treats.

I realise the only way we're able to do this is because DH is one of those fabled Mumsnet High Earning Husbands (TM) and by most standards we're very privileged. But there was no way I was going to burn myself out doing a 5 day a week, 8-6 job, and do everything at home as well, just so I could keep my pension contributions up.

Fuck that. If DH wants to be such a big swinging dick at work that he can't take a day off to look after the kids when they're sick, then I'll take the career hit but he can keep my pension contributions up instead!

So many women give up work for a few years but never actually go back. Or they go back very part time. It is a significant percentage of the unemployment total. Some women just get out of the habit of working and stay at home throughout their children's time at secondary. Then they start to look after their elderly parents ( not their husband's parents, just their own Mum and Dad. Then they hit retirement. I have seen so many of my friends give up work in their early fifties or simply never return after being a SAHM.
The early fifties can be a time when some husbands get fed up of being the sole breadwinner and walk out which can lead women to be stuffed with regard to coping alone.

Feminism means being able to raise your children yourself if you want to. (many people prefer to work and that’s fine also) Just because the system is so messed up at the moment that very few people can run a home or family without two full time incomes doesn’t mean the system is right or makes sense in terms of meeting our wider needs as humans.

It doesn't mean that though.

Every time this topic comes up someone wheels out the "feminism is about choice" line. (Or my other favourite bit of bollocks, that being a SAHM is a "valid choice" -- which means absolutely nothing. Of course its "valid").

Of course it's everyone's right not to work if they have sufficient money coming into the home that they don't have to. That's fine and understandable. But I really wish people would stop presenting it as "feminism". It's not feminism, by any stretch of the imagination.

Feminism would mean equality. Equality would mean equality of income or equity or financial security. It would mean that a man is just as likely to be at home as a woman. It would mean a woman is paid on par with a man for doing equal work. And it would mean that in couples where both parents work, the man and the woman are both doing their equal share of childcare and domestic tasks.

The reality, where in nine out of ten cases its the woman who downgrades her career to favour the man's is manifestly nothing to do with feminism. And the more women choose to do this (or have it forced on them), the less feminism there is because the harder it is for those of us who have to do it to support our families.

So please by all means take career breaks or stop work altogether if you want do. But be honest enough to admit that you do it because want to do it and stop whitewashing it as feminism.

Well, I wouldn't, personally, but it's your choice.

I would never willingly make myself financially dependent on another person. I wouldn't sacrifice my own earning potential, career progression and pension. I wouldn't want to lose my professional skills, confidence in my abilities and my opportunities for ongoing growth and development. And I wouldn't want to give up the aspects of my identity that are associated with my career, or the sense of achievement and purpose that I get from what I do, or the social contact that I enjoy through work.

But that's me. If none of those things are important to you and you think you would be happier at home, then fair enough. There is no one "right" way to live. Just make sure that you plan to protect yourself as best you can in case things go wrong.